A discussion that raised some interesting questions; namely what are the burial customs within the Flanaess and why is burial practiced at all given the relative ease that undead can be created?
I do not want a state by state list but rather the possible societial basis, given the psychological, military and material loss for the society within GH due to undead and grave robbers (adventures).
If your only concern is the PC's no explaination is needed however given the presence of numerous deities, evil priests and necromancers; wouldn't society recoil not only in disgust but also in sheer self-preservation after numerous examples of defiled undead relatives and heirloom weapons that reappear on the market until everyone at a societial level says "no more burial".
If burial remains popular despite the sightings of "uncle bob" on the battlefield and the "explored" burial cairns, where is the outcry from the faithful demanding their deities protect their loved ones...no spell so the dead remain safely dead?
Well, I think burial would remain common despite grave robbers and necromancers. It remained common in real world cultures that *believed* such things were occuring regularly. The alternative, cremation, is not exactly an easy feat in pre modern tech (at least as far as actually reducing the bones to ash), not to mention distinctly unpleasant smelling.
Also, I consider that it is not as easy to raise the undead as it is made to appear. There *are* spells for stopping such things listed in various products for different editions. Generally speaking, I believe that properly consecrated burial should prevent this sort of thing. So necromancers seek out unhallowed burial sites or work hard to deconsecrate genuine ones.
Well, I think burial would remain common despite grave robbers and necromancers. It remained common in real world cultures that *believed* such things were occuring regularly.
Many of those believed that it was essential for the body to remain intact for the sake of the final resurrection at the end of time. Or like the ancient Egyptians, who believed the body should be preserved so that the ka-soul had a place to return to.
If people of Oerth believe that one day the gods will resurrect everyone, they probably don't think they'll skimp and use lousy raise dead spells. No, it's going to be true resurrection all the way, and the body doesn't need to remain intact for that.
There is no particular reason to make that assertion. Even if you do play one of the rules sets that supports True Rez, its going to be an extremely rare thing. Far less known and understood than the lesser life restorations that do require all or part of the body. If you want to start arguing based on the spell rules, you might as well assert that no one would care if Uncle Bob's a zombie now, since he'll be rezzed anyway. Or, since true rez can't overcome "natural causes/old age" deaths, that is better to ritually murder the old before they reach that point...
One of the primary roles of the village priest is to verify that the soul of the deceased has gone to the afterlife and the body can be laid to rest. Cemeteries are hallowed ground whenever possible. If not hallowed, the local populace would likely be very willing to tithe extra coppers until the village can afford to do so. Burial outside a cemetery is taboo.
Burial of the dead brings significantly greater chances of lesser undead - skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc. While a significant threat to peasantry, the local knight and priest should be able to handle occasional zombies. With cremation, the probability of an undead threat is significantly reduced, but much more fearsome. If an effigy spawns from a cremation, the knight will not be able to defeat it and the whole village will likely be destroyed.
There is no particular reason to make that assertion. Even if you do play one of the rules sets that supports True Rez, its going to be an extremely rare thing.
Oh, I agree with you, but I'm not talking about what ordinary priests do. Most people don't expect that they'll get resurrected by clerics after they die, and they know it gets less and less likely fairly as their corpses continue to rot in their coffins. I'm talking about what people expect gods to do at the end of time. Fantasy equivalent of the Book of Revelation.
Right, but I'm saying it would be so rare as to be a mythical event. So not necessarily related to the endgame beliefs. Just like what happened with Lazarus isn't the same as what the church teaches about the Second Coming.
Anyway, I am of the opinion that proper burial rites protect against 'ordinary' cases of necromancy. So the issue isn't really germane. Besides, the dominant reason for burial is that the bodies need to disposed of and burial is alot more efficient than cremation, especially at the point the customs evolved...
Ok, before you address burial, I think a discussion of who tends the dead is appropriate. Does the priest of Pelor deal with the death of his worshippers, or do the Gods/Goddesses of the Dead handle the dead?
The alternative, cremation, is not exactly an easy feat in pre modern tech (at least as far as actually reducing the bones to ash), not to mention distinctly unpleasant smelling.
Well - given it's been practiced in India since ancient times - I don't think it's that difficult a feat. I've seen bodies burnt to ash on relatively modest sized pyres of wood and straw.
That said, there seems to be little evidence of cremation in published GH sources, though I'd see it being big among Palish Pholtines for religious reasons, as well devoted worshipers of other fire/sun gods - Joramy, Pelor, Pyremius (the hint is in the name here) etc.
Sectarian differences aside - funerary rites are probably broadly uniform by culture - though local variations may have arisen since.
The Flan are likely to mostly favour burial - since it's a return to the Oerth Mother etc. There's also lots of evidence of Flan burial sites - cairns, catacombs, the Necropolis of Unaagh in Sulm etcetc. This also explains their abhorrence of Nerull, who breaks that cycle through the curse of Undeath.
The Oerids likely favoured treasure burials in the manner of the Scythians or the Mongols (for the similar reasons that wood is probably fairly scarce in Ull and the steppes of Central Oerik). This custom in all likelihood came east with them in the migrations and might explain why a lot of tombs are so worthwhile raiding - given the custom of adorning them with gravegoods.
The Suel don't seem to have problems with burial either. IIRC, there's plenty of evidence of Suel tombs in Canon. Similarly, the Bakluni seem to have mausoleums, if Fred Weining's Zeif article in LGJ5 is anything to go by.
As to why they continue to bury in a world where undead exist, here's an interesting passage from an Amazon review of a book called "Death, A User's Guide":
Quote:
"However misguided in our terms other societies have been, one thing remains true: they were doing their best to ensure the postmortem well-being of their dead. Paramount in this was burial or cremation or whatever other means of final disposal was acceptable to the culture. An improper handling of the remains, or none at all, could prevent the dead from making it to their destination--a view strongly held in Egypt, ancient Greece, and Rome; in today's orthodox Judaism an unburied body is an affront to God and to man, and among primitive peoples it causes great concern."
So - if burial is the accepted norm for the culture, then doing anything else means that the spirit of the deceased won't reach the afterlife (which on Oerth actually does exist).The choice becomes - bury the dead with the chance that the body will be raised as undead or do something else and ensure for certain that the spirit won't reach the afterlife.
Presumably, any burial rites would include rituals to help protect against raising as undead - hallowing of ground etc. Another way to dealing with it is either guarding the graves (so closely guarded communal catacombs with sealed tombs) or making them inaccessable to intruders - be they grave robbers or necromancers (hence elaborate and trapped tomb complexes - or dungeons to me and you).
I picture the Wolf Nomads as burying their dead in small dug-out caves in the hills(which Iuz threatened to his own detriment). I can't recall what form the burial ground took, but I like the dug-out burials sites. I imagine warriors would be buried with their weapons(common in almost all real cultures) and loved ones might add personal tokens such as a braided length of hair, a carved image or something similar. This would fit well with the more primative Flan in general imo. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I picture the Wolf Nomads as burying their dead in small dug-out caves in the hills(which Iuz threatened to his own detriment). I can't recall what form the burial ground took, but I like the dug-out burials sites. I imagine warriors would be buried with their weapons(common in almost all real cultures) and loved ones might add personal tokens such as a braided length of hair, a carved image or something similar. This would fit well with the more primative Flan in general imo.
Interestingly, I went the other way with the Wolf Nomads in my recent campaign.
I decided that: (a) repulsed by the looting of tombs and creation of undead inherant in these burials (cf 'The Dead of the Howling Hills' adventure card in the CoG Boxed Set); (b) wanting to be more in tune with nature; and (c ) not having the time or resources to build a tomb for their dead, the Wolf Nomads now practice 'air burial.'
The body is taken to a high place and left open to the elements for scavengers and birds to eat. Whilst this takes place, the burial party watch from a hidden vantage point and feast in honour of the fallen.
It was, I admit, partly inspired by a passage from Neil Gaiman's graphic novels 'The Sandman.' But it also provided a focus for a conversion of the 'Howling Hills' game card to v3.5 rules. _________________ Accuracy is our watchwurd
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
