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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:05 pm
Legendary Locations in the 1e DMG
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While googling around I came across a discussion on Dragonsfoot about an off-handed list of locations mentioned in the section on artifacts in the 1e DMG.
I seem to remember them mentioned as suggested locations where artifacts might be destroyed or something like that, although I could be way wrong.
Anyway, the list is -
the Well of Time
the Earth Wound
Adonais' Deep
the Spring of Eternity
Marion's Trench
the Living Stone
Mountain of Thunder
the Tree of the Universe
the Cornerstone of the World
Artur's Dolmen
the Juggernaut of the Endless Labyrinth
the Ray of Eternal Shrinking
the Well of Life
the River of Flame
In the Gygax q&a at EN World Gary does identify the Tree of the Universe as Yggdrasil but doesn't give any other details.
My question is has anybody used any of these or placed them anywhere on Oerth? Artur's Dolmen is one specifically that comes to mind.
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:41 pm
Re: Legendary Locations in the 1e DMG
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| smillan_31 wrote: |
| the Well of Time |
Something in Lendor's otherplanar realm, perhaps. A bottomless hole that leads to the Plane of Time, where Istus rules.
Rift Canyon?
"Adonis" is closely linked with Greek myth, but I suppose this could be the site where an ancient, near-forgotten god died in the ocean, killed by a goddess who was his lover.
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| the Spring of Eternity |
A counterpart to the Well of Time, but in the opposite direction. The raw stuff of time bubbles up here in Lendor's realm. If you've fallen down the Well of Time, the Spring of Eternity is your path back.
This is a silly and somewhat salacious pun, but it refers to the deepest trench in the ocean.
This might refer to the Mines of Dumathoin fading land.
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| Mountain of Thunder |
Just a mountain somewhere with a vortex to the Quasielemental Plane of Lightning or Demiplane of Electromagnetism. Or both.
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| the Tree of the Universe |
Yggdrasil.
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| the Cornerstone of the World |
The immovable oerthstone beneath Castle Greyhawk.
The only Artur in Greyhawk is Count Jakartai, but perhaps this Artur was his namesake, a legendary Flan hero from long before the migrations.
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| the Juggernaut of the Endless Labyrinth |
Something in Baphomet's layer of the Abyss, I would guess.
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| the Ray of Eternal Shrinking |
The legendary Gun of Reducto. Back off!
More wells. Something associated with Beory and/or the Positive Plane, maybe.
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| the River of Flame |
The Pyriphlegethon, which flows through the Lower Planes. See A Tiefling's Exultation:
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| Pyriphlegethon: Flowing from Mount Erebus in Phlegethos, Baator, the River Pyriphlegethon changes in nature along its length. At its source it is pure molten rock, much like everything else in the layer. From there it loops around to Phlegethon in Pandemonium where it is a congealed, nearly solid flow of lava and hot mud. Mind you, it's still much hotter than the rest of the layer, so a body who needs heat badly could do worse than to go looking for the flaming river. Passing next into the uncharted depths of the Abyss, the river's path is lost. It emerges again in the Hinterlands, near Xiuhtecuhtli's realm. Passing by the Dark Forest encircling the Slavic Other World as a wide chasm of flames, it flows along the Long Valley as far as the eye can scan. Somehow it next flows into Avernus, where it is only distinguishable from the River of Blood by temperature: Pyriphlegethon boils. Having thus gone full circle around the Lower Planes it flows into the Styx at Stenching Evil, the City of Revulsion. |
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Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 2592
From: Ullinois
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:13 pm
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Great ideas Rasgon. If I might, I think a couple are off:
The Living Stone should be the Oerth Stone of Greyhawk Ruins since I believe it was instrumental in creating the material plane. It can be moved hence it being hid by that Black Monolith. That item in fact should be the Cornerstone of the Earth since it is frozen in time and immovable.
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:29 pm
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| mortellan wrote: |
| The Living Stone should be the Oerth Stone of Greyhawk Ruins since I believe it was instrumental in creating the material plane. It can be moved hence it being hid by that Black Monolith. That item in fact should be the Cornerstone of the Earth since it is frozen in time and immovable. |
So it's both the Living Stone and the Cornerstone of the Earth? I thought it was just the latter.
Also, maybe the Well of Life could be the well where Wee Jas is hiding her extra power.
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:08 pm
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Could be both. But I meant the Black Monolith is the Cornerstone since it has been there as long if not longer than the Oerthstone.
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GreySage
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:09 pm
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| mortellan wrote: |
| Could be both. But I meant the Black Monolith is the Cornerstone since it has been there as long if not longer than the Oerthstone. |
Hm. I thought the Oerthstone was the immovable one involved in the creation of the Oerth, and the Monolith was a more recent thing that nullifies the powers of gods.
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Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:40 pm
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Well I won't claim to be right, I need a third party to step in and look that one up :P
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:44 am
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| rasgon wrote: |
| Also, maybe the Well of Life could be the well where Wee Jas is hiding her extra power. |
In chat, I was reminded about the Well of All Heals from Treasures of Greyhawk. That's the most obvious thing for the "Well of Life" to be.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:02 am
Re: Legendary Locations in the 1e DMG
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| rasgon wrote: |
The only Artur in Greyhawk is Count Jakartai, but perhaps this Artur was his namesake, a legendary Flan hero from long before the migrations. |
This works with my notion of an Arturian/Arthurian Furyondy (see various CF article submissions) after we get rid of Belvor the Quaffer of Potions of Longevity. I know a lot of people make fun of Artur's INT, well maybe Artur's Dolmen is not named after Artur posthumously or some ancient Artur but is where Artur Jakartai got some INT knocked into his head, so to speak? IMO the 6 INT is just a typo; it was supposed to be 16! But a Dolmen of power helping forge King Artur of Furyondy's destiny works for me too!  In fact . . . 
_________________
GVD
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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From: Second Primordial Ooze on the Left
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:41 am
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If I can correct both of ya. ;-)
The immovable object is the Obelisk, the black, spherical object that conceals the second object, even from the gods.
The second object is the Earth Stone (or rather, fragment thereof), not the Oerth Stone. As in elemental "earth". While it supposedly was used to fill the Prime with matter, and therefore that includes Oerth, it is "bigger" then the Oerth in importance.
Denis, aka "Maldin"
==========================
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, magic, mysteries, mechanics, and more!
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:55 am
Artur's Dolmen
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| GVDammerung wrote: |
| rasgon wrote: |
The only Artur in Greyhawk is Count Jakartai, but perhaps this Artur was his namesake, a legendary Flan hero from long before the migrations. |
This works with my notion of an Arturian/Arthurian Furyondy (see various CF article submissions) after we get rid of Belvor the Quaffer of Potions of Longevity. I know a lot of people make fun of Artur's INT, well maybe Artur's Dolmen is not named after Artur posthumously or some ancient Artur but is where Artur Jakartai got some INT knocked into his head, so to speak? IMO the 6 INT is just a typo; it was supposed to be 16! But a Dolmen of power helping forge King Artur of Furyondy's destiny works for me too! In fact . . . |
No reason he had to be a Flan hero. Artur could have been a king or hero of the Furyon or whatever the Oeridians who lived there before the GK took over were called. Or if he was some legendary Oeridian hero his dolmen could be way back in the west somewhere.
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:00 pm
Re: Artur's Dolmen
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| smillan_31 wrote: |
| [No reason he had to be a Flan hero. |
I called him a Flan hero because he's associated with a dolmen, which is something from the same era as the stone circles (for example, StoneRing near Greyhawk). Those are definitely pre-Oeridian.
Granted, the Baklunish have Tovag Baragu, but I don't think Artur was Baklunish.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:24 pm
Re: Artur's Dolmen
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| rasgon wrote: |
| smillan_31 wrote: |
| [No reason he had to be a Flan hero. |
I called him a Flan hero because he's associated with a dolmen, which is something from the same era as the stone circles (for example, StoneRing near Greyhawk). Those are definitely pre-Oeridian.
Granted, the Baklunish have Tovag Baragu, but I don't think Artur was Baklunish. |
I'm sure the Koreans and every other culture in the world who built dolmens will be crushed to know that they're descended from Neolithic Europeans.
Seriously, just because Gygax used the word dolmen doesn't mean we're talking about something raised by a neolithic culture. Korean dolmens (40% of the dolmens in the world if you can believe Wikipedia) were raised in the Iron Age.
Besides all that, we've got the range of possibilities to choose from. I'm just throwing out the possibility that someone from an overwhelmingly Oeridian culture might be named after an Oeridian hero, and from my understanding at least the Migration Period Oeridians were pretty much barbarians who would not be above raising a big barrow mound over a dead king or chieftain.
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GreySage
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Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:54 pm
Re: Artur's Dolmen
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| smillan_31 wrote: |
| Seriously, just because Gygax used the word dolmen doesn't mean we're talking about something raised by a neolithic culture. Korean dolmens (40% of the dolmens in the world if you can believe Wikipedia) were raised in the Iron Age. |
Yeah, I looked up "dolmen" on Wikipedia too, and I had a feeling you were going to respond along those lines. I think it's a mistake to compare the traditions of Oerth with those of the real world, though.
It's not hard to imagine someone from the Shield Lands being named after an Oeridian hero, but in this case I think Flan makes much more sense. The Oeridians aren't known to have a tradition of monoliths, and the Flan are. The Flan, while not Celtic, have a druidic culture which fits better with an Arthurian milieu.
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Journeyman Greytalker
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Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:11 pm
Re: Artur's Dolmen
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If you wanted to keep more in the historical Arthurian flavor, Artur could have been an early Oridian who became a hero of the Flan in the Early days of the Migration or even during the early formations of the GK. Just Like Arthur being Roman. I don't know about anyon else but I've always looked on the Flan being a mix of Celt and Native American. Which makes an interesting yet not to disjointed culture.
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