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    Canonfire :: View topic - Iuz & Tiamat
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    Iuz & Tiamat
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 11
    From: Below the great wall of the west.

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    Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:26 am  
    Iuz & Tiamat

    I am currently writing a campaign in which, a Blue dragon priestess of Tiamat has killed Iuz and is preparing to invade the Wolf Nomads. The PC's will be enlisted to aid in the defense. Those are the bare minimum of details, if you need or would like more just ask.

    My questions for the community at large are these.... Question

    1) Does that sound like a reasonable plot line?
    2) Can Tiamat make her own Deathknights?
    3) Can Tiamat actually kill Iuz, or does she just imprison him somewhere on her plane of the Abyss?

    Thanks in advance.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2003
    Posts: 349
    From: the Free City of Dyvers (Kansas City, MO)

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    Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:42 am  

    Killing Iuz is a mighty stroke for any being! Such a creature/being should be very powerful, but it certainly is plausible. Would this be an epic-level campaign? I'd certainly suggest so. I think that technically, Tiamat could not create her own deathknights, but I'm sure she could come up with a reasonable facsimile. Besides, you can always say that she can; she's the Goddess of Evil Dragons! As to destroy or imprison Iuz - which would suit her (and your) purposes better? Personally, I use Iuz as the ultimate foil in my campaigns; the Sauron of Oerth. Without Iuz, there's hardly any boogeyman. Laughing Canon-wise:
    1) Yes, this is feasible, but the priestess must be VERY powerful.
    2) No, Tiamat couldn't create her own deathknights, specifically.
    3) She could in theory kill Iuz, but might consider imprisoning him if it better suits her needs.

    Also, condier that Iuz is a half-demon, and Tiamat is associated with the devils (although isn't one). The destruction of Iuz in her name could precipitate an escalation of the Bloodwar (if you use that), at least on Oerth.
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    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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    From: Ullinois

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    Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:49 am  

    1) I've had Iuz rubbed out too for campaigns so the plot is reasonable if not liberating if you've had him around for a long time.

    2) Ordinarily they are made by Demogorgon as most knowledgable GH NPCs will assume. However I don't see any reason why other powers can't go by his model. You could even throw a draconic twist on them. An example of a non-demonic death knight is Lord Soth from Dragonlance.

    3) Tiamat could beat Iuz yes. Is it the Blue dragon priestess summoning Tiamat to kill Iuz or did she beat him herself? While Iuz can materially be slain, his soul object is kept in the abyss somewhere. IIRC it is on Zuggtmoy's homeplane. Destroy that and Iuz could be slain permanently by anyone.

    The only cosmological issue I have is Tiamat is ordinarily from the Nine Hells not the Abyss. Once again, minor variance that wouldn't change a thing for your plot.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1077
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:56 am  

    I like the idea that patience and planning are virtues. With that said I think it is very plausible that an ancient advanced blue dragon, with 16 or so levels of Priest/Dragon Presitge Classes could take out Iuz. After all, she may have been planning this for 200 years.

    In my experiance, if she was actually weaker than Iuz (from a game mechanics standpoint) and the PC's knew this, it can make them more afraid than they were of Iuz.

    What if she already knows that the PCs are present. Who they are, where they are from, and what magics they use? Such an opponent can be very disturbing. Wrap it in the flesh of a dragon, and I think you have a great foil. YMMV.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 14, 2005
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    Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:11 am  

    I tend to go for capture/imprisonment over destruction, though a destruction he could rebuild from is just as good. After all, a late game three way battle between Tiamat, Iuz, and the PCs could be fun. Give the PCs the conundrum of destroying Iuz's destroyer, or keeping Iuz out of action, or somehow managing both!

    1. Perfectly feasable. Death is hardly a one way trip though. Still takes a while to build back up.

    2. For reasons of plot - yes, she can. Make it something she can't do often (ritual that takes a minor sacrifice on her part if you want a semi-unique creature), or just say she can, and be done. Also, for living servants, I have used the Paladin of Tyranny from Unearthed Arcana, though my original source would be the Knights of Takhesis (sp?) in Dragons of Summer Flame. I altered the flavor away from undead loving to a power which could be used to heal the faithful, or hurt the unworthy. Makes for an awesome test of faith: "Do you serve the Dark Lady Tiamat with all your heart?" "Yes I do!" [lying] "Then prove it!" [unholy warrior applies lay on hands, and damages the unbeliever, although a true believer would be healed]

    3. Others have answered this quite well. I'll just echo their thoughts. Personally I lean towards imprisonment to use him as a component for some mcguffin artifact. trap him bodily, since killing him would just allow his protections to kick in and for him to ultimately escape.

    Just some thoughts.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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    From: Montevideo, Minnesota, US

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    Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:32 am  

    Anything is possible because its your campaign. Personally, I wouldn't stretch Greyhawk lore that much mainly because there may come a time when you wished you hadn't killed a main Greyhawk figure such as Iuz. Someday you want to use him and then you need to undo the change you made. Therefore, given the choices you have provided I would opt for imprisonment. Sure death can always be undone but I wouldn't complicate things for yourself down the road as a DM. If you actually dislike Iuz and would like to remove him from the game because you think he's lame, then by all means do so. If you like him, keep it simple. You could have a fake death as well or create a scenario where it's open ended, could have gone either way (imprisonment or death) that way you leave yourself options for later on. Just don't let the PCs know the truth. Let them think what tey want.

    I think a blue dragon of virtually any size would have a tough time taking Iuz out. For as many years as the dragon may plot to make the kill you should also take into consideration Iuz's defenses. He has all of his worshippers, inner circles, divinations, and so on to keep him not only in power but alive.

    I think Tiamat could have access to dethknights if she wanted. Demogorgon created the first one but that doesn't men that others couldn't follow his recipe to create one. I agree with one of the other posts, if you give Tiamat a death knight also give them a draconic twist or maybe consider an undead dragon who can shapechange into a humanoid form.
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    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:54 am  

    I'd opt for she, and everybody else thinks they've destroyed him but maybe a sliver of his essence escaped as divine rank zero being and he's holed up in the Soul Husks caverns...
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2002
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    From: Sky Island, So Cal

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    Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:18 pm  

    The thread

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=816&highlight=iuz

    talks a bit about how one might go about killing Iuz
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:57 am  

    I've seen Iuz get whacked in a few campaigns. He's tough, but not invincible. One "20" with a vorpal sword did the trick. If he's gone it's not a big deal. Like there's a shortage of demons and such who would try to muscle in.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:56 pm  

    A vorpal blade would only destroy him temporarily unless you can first find his soul Gem on Zuggtmoy's plane.
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