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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
Posts: 3310
From: Michigan
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Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:57 am
Demonomicon of Graz'zt
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It's up. Evidently Athux is the son of Eclavdra - who knew?
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Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 2592
From: Ullinois
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Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:51 pm
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Ah sweet article, good Graz lore. Better late than never!
p.s. Rasgon, your topic title threw me for a loop. I thought until I checked the link that Wizards really changed the series to Demonomicon of Grazzt. I put nothing past them anymore. ;)
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Posts: 1446
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Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:38 pm
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I like this article. I hope for more like it but . . . _________________ GVD
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 161
From: Yorkshire, Britain
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Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:55 am
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mortellan wrote: |
p.s. Rasgon, your topic title threw me for a loop. I thought until I checked the link that Wizards really changed the series to Demonomicon of Grazzt. I put nothing past them anymore. ;) |
Graz: Anything you can do I can do better!
Iggwilv: Yeeees.... Except I penned my Demonomicon with the blood of a thousand innocents. And not crayon.
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 5
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Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:15 pm
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I found this piece to be very good. I went to Paizo hoping they had the similiar article on Demogorgon as a downloadable PDF, but, alias, no. My question is, are ALL the Demonomicon articles as good as this one?
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Posts: 1846
From: Mt. Smolderac
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Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:14 pm
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darkmonkey99 wrote: |
I found this piece to be very good. I went to Paizo hoping they had the similiar article on Demogorgon as a downloadable PDF, but, alias, no. My question is, are ALL the Demonomicon articles as good as this one? |
They've all been written by James Jacobs so they're all pretty similar, and they're all pretty good IMO. I've been using lots of stuff from his Zuggtmoy article IMC and I'll probably bring in some other demonic cults at some point. The Demogorgon article is in Dragon #257 which you might still be able to find as a back issue at your local gaming store.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 161
From: Yorkshire, Britain
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:58 am
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Actually that's #357.
And the other articles are like thus:
Pazuzu is in #329
Fraz-Urb'luu in #333
Zuggtmoy in #337
Baphomet in #341
Kostchtchie in #345
Dagon in #349
Malcanthet in #353
And there is a Apocrypha in issue #359 which tells you how to make your own demon lord, as well as other goodies.
Anyway, I really liked that is article completely ignored that whole Demons can't do long range planning sillyness. I likely the cunning fiend.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 218
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:16 pm
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Holy schnikees...
The paragraph on Eclavdra is a near-mirror of what happened in my GH. Although I borrowed a bit of it from Canonfire.
If this is the future of Dragon, it should be okay. But can they sustain the quality?
Telas
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Black Hand of Oblivion
Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3835
From: So. Cal
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:57 pm
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I agree that this article was pretty good, as has been most of the on-line content so far. The only issue I see is people who would just want the e-magazines, and not all the other online play stuff that might very well be bundled with it. Hopefully WotC will offer the e-magazine subscriptions separately, and for less than cost of the fully bundled D&D Insider content per month(for both Dragon and Dungeon). After all, it’s not like they have to pay for paper, printing, shipping, etc.
I’m still waiting to see what exactly constitutes a full month’s worth of articles for each e-magazine, and whether or not all of the articles for each e-magazine will be compiled into a single finished issue format. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 161
From: Yorkshire, Britain
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:41 am
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The articles that I have read have been pretty good, but I just think that they work better on physical paper than with electronics.
Anyway, back to the article.
Can I just say that Jason Engle's art is wonderful? Just look at the majesty coming off that big portrait of the big G.
Also, I liked the depiction of his cult. As a master of seduction and guile, it's great that JJ managed to find a way to incorperate that into Graz'zt worship without making it identical to Malcanthet's church.
Also, is it just me, or are the fiend worshiping cults and such depicted in the Demonomicon article more horrific than the originals in the Book of Vile Darkness? In that, a Thrall only had to sacrifice some one in an area of magical darkness to get the special qualification requirement, and there was none of this Hollow Feast jazz.
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Master Greytalker
Joined: Dec 07, 2003
Posts: 636
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:13 am
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How do people think Grazz't will fare under 4e? If succubi are being re-classified as devils (I'm not really a fan of that since it seems to be spelling the death of the eryines), Malcanthet will no longer be a demon either. Graz'zt seems too civilized and humanoid to pass as an elemental force of destruction. Do people think he will be re-classified too?
If Obyriths are kept distinct from Tannari, we might see his mixed heritage lend itself to a demonic explanation. Or maybe make Daddy a devil? I'm not a fan of demons switching sides but I suppose if they put in a sub-category of devil to explain the 4e side-switchers i.e succubi are a new category of devil, it might still underscore their traditional heritage.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 161
From: Yorkshire, Britain
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:14 am
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Personally, I'm going to ignore the who diabolic succubi thing, and knock up some homebrew Erinyes and Pleasure Devils.
And while I don't know what they will be doing with Graz'zt, I do know that the would they're making with 4.0 isn't Greyhawk, so it doesn't really matter, as we'll still have the real deal to play with.
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
Posts: 3310
From: Michigan
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:56 am
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They've said that Graz'zt will still be a demon in 4e. The "elemental destruction" thing is a stereotype, and doesn't apply to every demonic individual.
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
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From: Yorkshire, Britain
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:19 am
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Well that's some relief.
Graz'zt is pretty much the embodiment of the cunning fiend archarotype, who the whole 'slavering monsters of chaos!' approach would have done him a major disservice.
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