I am putting together ideas for my next PC game project, once my current one has been completed.
I would like to make a turn-based, role-playing game, for pc, based on Greyhawk, but using unofficial equivalents for proper nouns and so forth.
I plan to use AD&D rules to produce the combat algorithms, and grid-based movement.
I had thought to use an adventure company guild-master as the protagonist. Instead of making a select few characters at start, you have a guild that slowly grows in size and gains access to higher base levels of pc's as you progress through the game. Basically, you can have a party wipe, and send out another team.
It would be fairly simple to use the same mechanics from AD&D, though Non-Weapon Profs would be more or less useless.
For the actual role-playing aspect, the Guild-Master could gain reputation and visit with nobility and hob-knob about to gain favors. Snobbing it up with the Magic-User's School, or the Thieves Guild allows you to recruit respective classes of higher level for your guild. This would also be how you gain quests to have your guild complete.
I am probably six months away from completion of my current project. I would be pleased to hear from the lot of you about what you'd like the game to include. When it comes time to actually begin work on the game, I will turn to you guys for non-copy-writ equivalents for proper nouns.
Is it a mod for an existing game, like ToEE? Will it be available free, or for a donation, or are you developing it for a software company as part of your employment?
I really enjoyed ToEE for several reasons that I hope you will incorporate into your own game:
True to canon;
Lots of options (of all kinds - character generation, courses of action, consequences, etc.);
Visuals.
The Guildmaster as party benefactor sounds like a good idea. Will you be adapting one of the classic modules like Keep on the Borderlands or Against the Giants, adapting a newer module, or using a brand new adventure of your own making? If you use one of the classics, I and most others here could offer lots of options to improve the final product - side treks such as those added to ToEE or roleplaying possibilities to flesh out the NPC interactions.
Is it a mod for an existing game, like ToEE? Will it be available free, or for a donation, or are you developing it for a software company as part of your employment?
It will be developed as an indie game by myself and my minions. It will have pixel graphics--think SNES era. I plan to sell the finished game, but for only a dollar or so. I own a software company called SecretArts.
SirXaris wrote:
I really enjoyed ToEE for several reasons that I hope you will incorporate into your own game:
True to canon;
Easily done.
SirXaris wrote:
Lots of options (of all kinds - character generation, courses of action, consequences, etc.);
As I explained above, I intend to do just this. You will pick race (including the various human races), gender, & class. I will not have an attributes-generator, as you are recruiting characters who would not be looking for a job as whichever class they are, if they did not have good attributes for it.
The two gameplay modes will be: as the Guild Master, and as the Adventuring Party. The Guild Master walks around the city, talks to folks, meet with nobles, purchases equipment from merchants, etc. In this mode you can hire new party members, fire old ones, distribute gear, add/remove characters from the active adventuring party, etc. I want to have a lot of options for this mode of gameplay. I was thinking about having even a plot where you can choose which of three different women to marry, even. The end-sum of the Guild Master will be to get him/her to be promoted to nobility for their actions.
The Adventuring Party mode will start out from the City Gate. There will be no random encounters, but there will be staged encounters when moving overland on occasion. During this gameplay mode you play as a group of eight PC's who have been given a specific list of goals in order to complete a quest. Once the quest has been completed, gameplay will automatically assume they made it back home alright. Gameplay will then switch back to the Guild Master, who manages the treasure take and whatnot from the Adventuring Party.
SirXaris wrote:
Visuals.
I do not like the texture-mapped 3D graphics of most PC games. Mine will be closer to the Baldur's Gate series, graphically, but not from an isometric viewpoint. Visually it will be more like the D&D Cartoon show, but with less cartoony character designs.
SirXaris wrote:
The Guildmaster as party benefactor sounds like a good idea.
Thank you. I like the idea of playing the guy who gives the quests that start the adventure, and role-playing out how he gets them.
SirXaris wrote:
Will you be adapting one of the classic modules like Keep on the Borderlands or Against the Giants, adapting a newer module, or using a brand new adventure of your own making? If you use one of the classics, I and most others here could offer lots of options to improve the final product - side treks such as those added to ToEE or roleplaying possibilities to flesh out the NPC interactions.
It is my intention to start with Keep on the Borderlands, and go through the G,D, & Q series. If you know a good bridge for those two, please, suggest away.
I have already pretty much come to the decision to rely on the locals here to flesh the game out. Though still a long way from the actual start of development, I would happily accept any notes or ideas anyone wants to make.
The game is not going to be like most PC-RPGs. It is going to be more of a console RPG on a PC. There will not be mouse-control, there will be directional movement and a menu-interface. ToEE's biggest flaw was its horrible menu-structure, which I do not intend to imitate at all.
I am not making a product similar to the SSI roots most PC-RPGs maintain today. It will be closer, in style and design, to a JRPG, but without the twaddle.
I also plan to hire a pro composer (my man, Sean Beeson http://seanbeeson.com/) to do the score. My first game is an NES retro-clone, and he was able to produce perfect 8-bit music for it.
I like the idea of the game a lot. I do have a few questions/comments/concerns, however:
1. Economics: My biggest complaint with all of the RPG computer games is that the characters get rich quickly. Within a couple of hours of play, money ceases to have much meaning, as they characters have found so much loot and also sold all of their enemies’ equipment that they are set for life. How are you going to keep it from going completely Monty Haul? Even ToEE and Baldur’s Gate, my favorites of the genre eventually got to this point.
2. How is the Guild Master (GM) paying his hirelings? Is it a straight salary, shares of loot, or a combination thereof? You could create a very interesting negotiation dynamic/interface with this. Also, if adventurers increase in level, will they seek to renegotiate?
3. Tying into the last one, how is the GM going to recruit? My idea would be that the GM could go around to the Wizard’s, Mercenaries, Thieves Guild, and the various temples to recruit basic characters who may improve over time. For more exotic classes (paladins, rangers, bards, etc.) he would have to visit the various inns and taverns, possibly greasing the palms of the innkeepers to put the word out for them. This would also be how he recruits higher level adventurers (rather than hiring them from the easy places mentioned earlier). The GM’s relationship with the Guild Masters and the various bartenders and innkeepers would aid or hinder his individual goal of attaining nobility directly by being part of the algorithm, and also indirectly by how cooperative they are. You might want to use a stochastic process for the availability of higher-level/exotic classes which would represent them passing through the city (Greyhawk, I presume). This dynamic might work well with other merchants etc.
4. Is the adventure segment going to be mostly combat oriented (I understand that this is what computer RPGs do best, I am just curious)?
5. Is the GM going to have multiple parties in his “stable” conducting simultaneous quests?
6. How does the GM retain adventurers between quests? Is he simply going to be able to order them about, or will they sometimes delay or refuse orders to begin a quest (i.e., they want to enjoy Brewfest before going out to the Cairn Hills)?
7. Will the GM be able to dynamically re-task a party? Say they are out and about on a quest, and a better deal comes up that is time critical. Can he send a messenger to get them?
Oh! One thing that always irritates me in these games is that when the party acquires enough money to purchase better equipment (read: magical items) from the merchants or make them themselves, they almost always find stuff as good as or better than what they just spent all their money on as loot in the next portion of the adventure! What a waste! Dungeon Siege was the worst at this, but even ToEE was guilty.
If you allow the party to make their own magical items, please make sure that their time and resources are not wasted. Make sure that taking the time to create a new magical item themselves, or spending all the money they've saved up for a long time means that they can get their hands on an item or two that won't be available to be found as treasure for quite a bit longer, if ever.
1. Economics: My biggest complaint with all of the RPG computer games is that the characters get rich quickly. Within a couple of hours of play, money ceases to have much meaning, as they characters have found so much loot and also sold all of their enemies’ equipment that they are set for life. How are you going to keep it from going completely Monty Haul? Even ToEE and Baldur’s Gate, my favorites of the genre eventually got to this point.
I intend to deal with this by purposing money away from just buying gear.
You have a headquarters that may be developed upon, which costs gold. The bigger the headquarters, the more PC's can be recruited. Though you can only send out eight at a time, you will be able stable many more, depending on the size of your headquarters.
Some "wheels" will need to be "greased" to gain renown as your Guild Master.
I also plan in incorporate encumbrance into the game. Because many adventures are quite long, the party will have a base camp, where porters, henchmen, and a second-string of PC's will wait. When you find treasure after clearing out hostiles, you can send it all back to the base camp. Gold will eventually be transferred to your vault at headquarters, gear will be taken to the armory. Unwanted gear can have its value in GP placed in the vault, in an assumption that it has been sold.
tarelton wrote:
2. How is the Guild Master (GM) paying his hirelings? Is it a straight salary, shares of loot, or a combination thereof? You could create a very interesting negotiation dynamic/interface with this. Also, if adventurers increase in level, will they seek to renegotiate?
I addressed paying the PC's above. Hirelings are automatically associated with the size of your headquarters.
When you hire a PC they are in your stable until you kick them out, they quit, or they die. Each PC has a loyalty rating that is influenced by bonuses given to them, ranks granted to them, and days spent out on an adventure. Thirty days is the most a PC will stand being deployed without rest. Loyalty has three ranks: Very content, contented, and discontented (if their loyalty drops below discontented, they desert).
tarelton wrote:
3. Tying into the last one, how is the GM going to recruit? My idea would be that the GM could go around to the Wizard’s, Mercenaries, Thieves Guild, and the various temples to recruit basic characters who may improve over time. For more exotic classes (paladins, rangers, bards, etc.) he would have to visit the various inns and taverns, possibly greasing the palms of the innkeepers to put the word out for them. This would also be how he recruits higher level adventurers (rather than hiring them from the easy places mentioned earlier). The GM’s relationship with the Guild Masters and the various bartenders and innkeepers would aid or hinder his individual goal of attaining nobility directly by being part of the algorithm, and also indirectly by how cooperative they are. You might want to use a stochastic process for the availability of higher-level/exotic classes which would represent them passing through the city (Greyhawk, I presume). This dynamic might work well with other merchants etc.
Throughout the city there are numerous sources from which the GM may recruit PCs. Each of these has a rating associating their favor with the GM. Some are completely money-based (donations, patronage) others are more about interacting with the NPCs at their source.
For instance, if you have a deal with the Thieves Guild, a Paladin will not hire himself to you, and all of your PCs must be of Lawful Alignment. Similarly, an Assassin will not hire himself out to you unless you have nothing but Chaotically-aligned PCs.
Each of these sources has a 1-10 rank, based on whichever factors, that represents the level cap of potential PC recruits. It will be impossible to have them all at 10, at any one given time, however. Raising these levels is the primary game play role of the GM.
tarelton wrote:
4. Is the adventure segment going to be mostly combat oriented (I understand that this is what computer RPGs do best, I am just curious)?
The adventure segment is going to be about exploration. It will be about creeping your ranger or rogue ahead of the party looking for traps. It will be about your wizard detecting and dispelling magic. It will be about your fighter forcing open gates and barred doors.
Combat will be a part of the adventure mode, but in an finite capacity. There will be an upper limit of adversaries in each adventure, just as with a module. XP are assigned at the end of each adventure, based on what what found, defeated, and who died.
tarelton wrote:
5. Is the GM going to have multiple parties in his “stable” conducting simultaneous quests?
Yes, there will be a stable of PCs. No, you will only be able to conduct one adventure at a time.
tarelton wrote:
6. How does the GM retain adventurers between quests? Is he simply going to be able to order them about, or will they sometimes delay or refuse orders to begin a quest (i.e., they want to enjoy Brewfest before going out to the Cairn Hills)?
The PCs will basically lounge around in their quarters back at HQ. This is when the GM will gift them with rewards such as special gear, wealth items, gold, or titles. I had not intended to include a special system of dating at this time.
tarelton wrote:
7. Will the GM be able to dynamically re-task a party? Say they are out and about on a quest, and a better deal comes up that is time critical. Can he send a messenger to get them?
A party on an adventure can abandon it up to the point of their latest base camp at any time (outside of a fight), and come back later. This, however, affects the reputation of the GM. Setting up a camp is sort of a progress marker in the adventure mode.
I think actions make for good RPG elements. Guild Masters who hire rouge's from the thieves guild might find themselves at odds with the various churches. Those that donate services to the community might gain positive attention from Knights of the Watch which could lead to gaining Paladins. Members of the old faith might consider aiding the GM if he prevents deforestation and provides humane treatment of animals. Ranges and Druid can be drawn from these circles.
One must also make sure the Bardic colleges are paid off well. Nothing like good or bad Public Image to help one's cause.
Also taking aid from the knights of the Watch may lead to more trouble from the Ket government or guilds there.
Overall, I like it. I assume the setting is in the Sheldomar? A good bridge level wise to Against the Giants might be the Sinister Secret trilogy followed by the Guantlet and Sentinel.
The Sheldomar Valley is my favorite location in GH. The U trilogy was my first choice to place the game, but the theme of it does not fit so well with GDQ.
I spend almost all my free time hammering away on this project. I refuse to present a final product anything short of professional. Any pledged funds would help me greatly, aside from earning you some cool rewards.
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What a waste! Dungeon Siege was the worst at this, but even ToEE was guilty. 
