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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:39 pm
Extry! Extry! Sea Princes Attack Junre!
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I just found this reference in WG8 - Fate of Istus (p. 25). in the same paragraph mentioning the siege in 506 by humanoids fleeing the Hateful Wars. "... and some unsuccessful attacks by the Sea Princes sailing up the Kewl at the nadir of Keoish sea power..." That would be the 450's? Junre is over 150 miles from the Azure Sea. Pretty impressive! Anybody remember having seen this or a discussion of it before?
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Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 2592
From: Ullinois
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Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:18 pm
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Nice find! Worth looking into and discussing.
I do know that pirates typically had to slog inland to loot places because bringing ships into port was too risky. But 150 miles...eh...
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GreySage
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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From: LG Dyvers
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Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:53 pm
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I don't know much about Sea Princes pirates attacking Jurnre, but I can vouch for the realism of the idea (though the distance might be a stretch).
The Vikings would do that very thing, especially in northern France. Thus the French king came to an agreement with a particular Viking Lord, granting him and his people Normandy (named for the Northmen who settled there) in exchange for a promise to protect the lands and people inland from other raiding Norse (Northmen). The deal worked out extremely well for both sides - the French had a wall of friendly Vikings protecting them from the unfriendly ones and the Vikings settled in Normandy got to do all the fighting they wanted against other Vikings that tried to raid the coast or travel up river past them.
SirXaris
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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Nov 28, 2010
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From: San Diego, CA
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Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:09 pm
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I might have... but...
There's an old tale that talks of a band of foolish pirates that had to get their Disk of the Azure Sea back. So it goes... After pirates slaughtered and took the treasure of the sea hag sisters Frongi, Zeg, and Thaffini, a winged minion escaped to tell the other sisters to the north, Yurki, Bemnom & Meej, of what had transpired. When the 3 sisters heard about the pirate's battle, they flew into a rage! From their lair beneath the docks of Junre, the 3 conspired to have them followed and tortured over time. For many months after, strange accidents befell the pirate's ship until the sisters finally pinpointed when the pirates would be. They planned to sneak aboard their ship where they would attempt to make off with the Disk and other personal items in retaliation, but their plan didn't end there.
A great battle aboard the decks happened under the dark of night where many men died and one of the hag sisters was captured but within an inch of her life. The two remaining sisters cursed them all and plunged into the pitch black sea disappearing with the Disk (and personal mementos) in their warty hands. Before Meej died of horrible wounds, she told of an elaborate lair under the streets of Junre beginning in the docks and that's where their treasure would be.
The pirates never made it, as they were seen as invaders to the city of Junre, and were either repelled or met their watery graves, as was the sister's plan. For all we know, the two sea hag sisters still wait in the deep treacherous darkness far below the docks, cackling and counting their riches... and this is where the first Drowned Ones appeared, but that's another story for another time...
At least that's how I heard it. _________________ For the last time... I'm not a vampire! I was bleached a bewitching shade of white by The Gem of Souls!
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:53 am
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Way to run with it, illustr8or! The Sheldomar is notable for being over a half a mile wide for half it's length and the Kewl is navigable to Junre and the Silverwood. That plus a broken Keoish navy could definitely lead to some enterprising Sea Prince captains, knowing that Gradsul would be too tough a nut to crack, setting their sights on Junre. It would make a nice full-length article.
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GreySage
Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2470
From: SW WA state (Highvale)
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:14 am
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SirXaris' knowledge of historical facts is accurate, from what I recall. I saw this documentary on the History Channel about the Vikings and how they used their shallow-bottomed vessels (longships) to travel much further inland via river systems to the veritable heartland of Europe. I think they even attacked the English capital this way. No one was safe from their rapacious assaults, and many lords would pay tribute to 'buy off' the Vikings.
-Lanthorn
(Smillan, I PMed you some time back...check please)
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Journeyman Greytalker
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Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:31 am
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Yep. The historical precedent is strong as others have said. The Vikings certainly attacked London (and held it at least once as I recall) and in fact besieged Paris in 885-886.
Never came across this in Fate of Istus before (or at least read it and forgot it) despite having a battered copy I've had since new so great spot. Would envisage this as ambitious groups of half a dozen or so ships looking for better, and easier, plunder.
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:11 am
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Well, I'm quite certain that Istus wouldn't lie about such a thing, though it's hard to believe.
Now, if we were talking about the Frost, Ice, or Snow Barbarians, well, history DOES have it's precedence!
Just having fun with you, of course.
Not only would the Vikings sail far up such rivers, but, once reaching said destination, they would then continue the journey INLAND for quite some miles, IF a rich enough prize were to be found. They did it in England and France, manys the time.
_________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:36 am
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Indeed Normandy basically was a Viking colony after a long history of raids. The Vikings even besieged Paris which lead to the destruction of the Carolingian Empire.
There was a case if I remember right in France that they built a barricade down one of the major rivers only to have the Vikings notice it, move their ships on shore, and move around them to flank the barricade. Either that or they just ignored it all together.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:11 am
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In 1665 pirate captain John Morris led a raid on Granada, Nicaragua by anchoring hsi ship at the mouth of the San Juan River and taking his force almost 100 miles upriver in boats and then across Lake Nicaragua. That's one way to do it.
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GreySage
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:16 pm
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Don't forget the raids by Henry Morgan' Especially his raids on Porto Bello (Panama) and the town of Maracaibo, located on Lake Maracaibo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgan
Enjoy!
_________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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Adept Greytalker
Joined: Aug 13, 2001
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Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:25 pm
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SirXaris wrote: |
I don't know much about Sea Princes pirates attacking Jurnre, but I can vouch for the realism of the idea (though the distance might be a stretch).
The Vikings would do that very thing, especially in northern France. Thus the French king came to an agreement with a particular Viking Lord, granting him and his people Normandy (named for the Northmen who settled there) in exchange for a promise to protect the lands and people inland from other raiding Norse (Northmen). The deal worked out extremely well for both sides - the French had a wall of friendly Vikings protecting them from the unfriendly ones and the Vikings settled in Normandy got to do all the fighting they wanted against other Vikings that tried to raid the coast or travel up river past them.
SirXaris |
Rollo. Converting to Christianity was also part of the deal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:48 am
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Mystic-Scholar wrote: |
Don't forget the raids by Henry Morgan' Especially his raids on Porto Bello (Panama) and the town of Maracaibo, located on Lake Maracaibo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgan
Enjoy!
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-I'm not that impressed with a Sea Princes = Vikings analogy. This (Sea Princes = 17-18th Century Pirates or Buccaneers) is a much better analogy...
smillan_31 wrote: |
In 1665 pirate captain John Morris led a raid on Granada, Nicaragua by anchoring hsi ship at the mouth of the San Juan River and taking his force almost 100 miles upriver in boats and then across Lake Nicaragua. That's one way to do it. |
...and the above makes it a perfect fit.
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:23 pm
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jamesdglick wrote: |
I'm not that impressed with a Sea Princes = Vikings analogy. This (Sea Princes = 17-18th Century Pirates or Buccaneers) is a much better analogy. |
We aim to please!
Eh, Smillian? _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:44 pm
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Mystic-Scholar wrote: |
jamesdglick wrote: |
I'm not that impressed with a Sea Princes = Vikings analogy. This (Sea Princes = 17-18th Century Pirates or Buccaneers) is a much better analogy. |
We aim to please!
Eh, Smillian? |
1) What's with the change in avatar?
2) When did you become an administrator?
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel? Or is Cebrion just getting lazy?
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GreySage
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:38 pm
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jamesdglick wrote: |
1) What's with the change in avatar? |
I'm giving in to the "Dark Side".
jamesdglick wrote: |
2) When did you become an administrator? |
Close to three weeks now. I'll also be handling the CR Crier once it's up and running. Expect me to be "active." Also, Gary wanted to give Cebrion some help and wanted me for some serious "editing" duties.
jamesdglick wrote: |
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel? Or is Cebrion just getting lazy? |
I'm actually capable of Summoning some fairly powerful Demons and my Necromantic powers are growing, so . . .
Mwahahahahaha!
Actually, my "old" avatar was the "best I could find" at that time. Found another site and am giving a couple of different avatars a try over the next couple of weeks.
May very well stay with the old one, when all is said and done. _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003
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From: British Columbia, Canada
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:00 pm
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Excellent research! I've always wanted to know more about the history of Junre. Are there any other nuggets kicking around from sources like this one?
Mystic-Scholar wrote: |
jamesdglick wrote: |
1) What's with the change in avatar? |
I'm giving in to the "Dark Side".
Mwahahahahaha!
Actually, my "old" avatar was the "best I could find" at that time. Found another site and am giving a couple of different avatars a try over the next couple of weeks.
May very well stay with the old one, when all is said and done. |
@Mystic-Scholar: To be perfectly honest, I've always like that picture. It's my favorite avatar for a mage NPC whenever I play Icewind. I even have it exported to use in BG and BG2!
(We now return you to your regularly scheduled Sea Princes discussion.) _________________ <div>Braggi, Swain and Varlet at Large<br /></div>
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GreySage
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:42 pm
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Braggi wrote: |
@Mystic-Scholar: To be perfectly honest, I've always like that picture. It's my favorite avatar for a mage NPC whenever I play Icewind. I even have it exported to use in BG and BG2! |
What? Wait! You mean my "old" avatar? _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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Journeyman Greytalker
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From: British Columbia, Canada
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:38 pm
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Whoops! Sorry, should have been more specific.
I was referring to the blue mage image I currently see as you avatar. It is one of the stock PC pictures from the infinity engine game Icewind Dale - I've always really liked it. _________________ <div>Braggi, Swain and Varlet at Large<br /></div>
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GreySage
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:00 pm
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Braggi wrote: |
I was referring to the blue mage image I currently see . . . I've always really liked it. |
Ah! Well, then. We have a winner! _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:40 pm
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Mystic-Scholar wrote: |
Actually, my "old" avatar was the "best I could find" at that time. Found another site and am giving a couple of different avatars a try over the next couple of weeks.
May very well stay with the old one, when all is said and done. |
-I'll have to bring in a little bit of contention here and disagree with Braggi. I think your old Avatar had that look of "The Sage In Repose" which is appropriate for Mystic Scholar.
It also has more of a "moderator" look to it...
Oh well.
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