Just stumbled on this really interesting "History of Heironeous" which someone wrote for what looks like a homebrew campaign. It's written in the form of a holy book divided into chapters and verses. A good bit is based off canon info, with other parts being purely the author's inventions. Check it out -- http://talesofdestiny.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_Heironeous.
"9. And the gods of evil replied, saying, Go to, then, and smite thy half-brother that he die, and we shall bless thee.
10. And Stratis spake saying, Behold the treachery of evil, brother, for they would have thee smite Heironeous, and then shall they give thee the power that ye seek.
11. And Hextor answered him, saying, Nay, they commandeth that I smite my half-brother, and so I shall. And he rose up in that moment, and took of his morningstar, and smote Stratis, and smote him unto the ground, and smote him until he died.
12. And when the gods of evil saw this, they blessed Hextor, and gave unto him a new form, yea, a great and terrible form, grey of skin and fierce of visage, and this form had six arms."
Heh! Who's this Salan crybaby? "Chosen of Heironeous?" Nonsense on stilts. Every true Heironiean knows that Saint Ferrante is Heironeous' favorite disciple.
No discount at the inn for you!
Last edited by jamesdglick on Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Yeah, he's definitely adapting the gods to his own homebrew world. I've poked around the site some more. Good reading. I like the stuff the guys has written even if most of it can't be applied to GH. The name of the "Great Silver Wyrm of the Landspine range," Ancephelothorax was cracking me up. Greek for "lacking a head and thorax," although I don't think he's using the prefix an- correctly, but still. You could interpret it as "Lacking a brain and a heart." It reminds me of some of the word play that Tolkien did in Farmer Giles of Ham.
Heh! Who's this Salan crybaby? "Chosen of Heironeous?" Nonsense on stilts. Every true Heironiean knows that Saint Ferrante is Heironeous' favorite disciple.
Great find! You are correct I get a very Cain and Able feel from this. Though I like it and think all of the gods in a setting would gain a lot with similar treatment.
Heh! Who's this Salan crybaby? "Chosen of Heironeous?" Nonsense on stilts. Every true Heironiean knows that Saint Ferrante is Heironeous' favorite disciple.
No discount at the inn for you!
Arndt was earlier.
-Ah ! But apparently, not as beloved as Saint Ferrante!
Mother Loughora says: "No discount for you!"
Maybe it's because has old Arnd of Tdon hasn't done much since the migration? Out of sight, out of mind.
Or maybe it's because that's how Bruce Cordell wrote to impress the reader with his hitherto unknown creation... :
Though this doesn't mesh with the death of Stratis as discussed in this thread, [url=http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5136[/url], it is an interesting story.
"9. And the gods of evil replied, saying, Go to, then, and smite thy half-brother that he die, and we shall bless thee.
10. And Stratis spake saying, Behold the treachery of evil, brother, for they would have thee smite Heironeous, and then shall they give thee the power that ye seek.
11. And Hextor answered him, saying, Nay, they commandeth that I smite my half-brother, and so I shall. And he rose up in that moment, and took of his morningstar, and smote Stratis, and smote him unto the ground, and smote him until he died.
12. And when the gods of evil saw this, they blessed Hextor, and gave unto him a new form, yea, a great and terrible form, grey of skin and fierce of visage, and this form had six arms."
that's a very interesting story. You're right, Sir Xaris, that it doesn't match up. But, perhaps, the author decided to intentionally modify the story for his own campaign? I wonder if it's that, or if he wasn't aware of the precise history of Stratis ... he may only know the basics, or something, and not the history of the beginning of the God War itself.
Nevertheless, taking the story on it's own merits, I thik that it's an interesting one. It's known that Hextor made a pact with the Lord of Evil, I believe they're called. And it does have Stratis dying - though in a much different way. Although, it is theoretically possible that in some mythos that the "mortal" who slew Stratis is considered an avatar of Hextor, or that there's another version of the story that differs from the mythos recounted in the Sundered Empire. Just as the Shield Mother is venerated in the Far West, she has a totally different incarnation in the Flanaess as Stern Alia.
I actually prefer this fan's version of the death of Stratis to the Chainmail story.
...and...
Icarus wrote:
...that's a very interesting story. You're right, Sir Xaris, that it doesn't match up. But, perhaps, the author decided to intentionally modify the story for his own campaign? I wonder if it's that, or if he wasn't aware of the precise history of Stratis ... he may only know the basics, or something, and not the history of the beginning of the God War itself.
Nevertheless, taking the story on it's own merits, I thik that it's an interesting one. It's known that Hextor made a pact with the Lord of Evil, I believe they're called. And it does have Stratis dying - though in a much different way...
-What if the killing of Startis which kicked off the war in western Oerik wasn't the first time that Stratis was killed?
1. Hextor kills Stratis in the distant past. Hextor gets a bump in divine rank, Stratis takes a sabbatical.
2. Over a period of time (99 years?), Stratis puts himself back together, or whatever it is that deities do in such circumstances.
3. Stratis returns to duty as god of war and has a good old time for several centuries, mostly in western Oerik.
4. Stratis gets killed (again ) by the heroes, kicking off the war.
5. Rinse, repeat? This has the advantage of being a metaphor for cycles of war (or something... )
Jamesdglick, regarding everything you said and quoted above ^
The biggest problem I saw in its fit with canon is that it never accounts for Stratis having four arms. Your suggestions would allow that to come about later.
Well if take the authors example and mix it with James we can use the following explanation. Stratis corpse was sent to sink into the world ash, though the pull of Nirvana was strong. Stratis spent over a century in Mechanus where he was rebuilt by the natives of the plane grafting onto him two additional arms so that he could defend himself against his treacherous brother. He would be the true champion of law and represent law itself amongst the people of Oerik.
Nevertheless, taking the story on it's own merits, I thik that it's an interesting one. It's known that Hextor made a pact with the Lord of Evil, I believe they're called. And it does have Stratis dying - though in a much different way. Although, it is theoretically possible that in some mythos that the "mortal" who slew Stratis is considered an avatar of Hextor, or that there's another version of the story that differs from the mythos recounted in the Sundered Empire. Just as the Shield Mother is venerated in the Far West, she has a totally different incarnation in the Flanaess as Stern Alia.
You know ... the more of these chapters that I read in this history stuff, the more I like. The guy seems to really know his lore fairly well, otherwise he wouldn't be so closely written to the "core" material. I think that the reason that he's changing a bit is to make it fit his own campaign. While I don't think tha tI would necessarily do that myself, he's done it really well.
I especially like the fact that he's written in-character, as if it were the actual scriptural text of the faithful of Heironeous. And he does it well. It has a feel like it's archaic language that one might find a paladin of Heironeous using, it's well-written in regards to an almost prophecy-sounding theme, and it's just different enough from real-life scriptures that it gives it a slightly fantasy feel.
I've sent a message to the author to invite him to talk about some of his interests and motivations in writing, and maybe if he responds, I'll ask him to come by Canonfire to talk with us about his work.
Thanks, man. That's a great idea. At the very least he get's to know that some people are looking at his work and appreciate it.
...Stratis corpse was sent to sink into the world ash, though the pull of Nirvana was strong. Stratis spent over a century in Mechanus where he was rebuilt by the natives of the plane grafting onto him two additional arms so that he could defend himself against his treacherous brother. He would be the true champion of law and represent law itself amongst the people of Oerik...
-Works for me.
I just think it would be neat to use his idea in a way which doesn't contradict canon (such as it is).
Icarus wrote:
...I've sent a message to the author to invite him to talk about some of his interests and motivations in writing, and maybe if he responds, I'll ask him to come by Canonfire to talk with us about his work...
-This is the second time in a few weeks you've gone to bat to track down some Stratis lore.
Huzzah!
Icarus wrote:
...I especially like the fact that he's written in-character, as if it were the actual scriptural text of the faithful of Heironeous. And he does it well. It has a feel like it's archaic language that one might find a paladin of Heironeous using, it's well-written in regards to an almost prophecy-sounding theme, and it's just different enough from real-life scriptures that it gives it a slightly fantasy feel...
-It reminds me the excerpts from the Book of Penitence in Bastion Of Faith.
. . . it is theoretically possible that in some mythos that the "mortal" who slew Stratis is considered an avatar of Hextor . . .
Of course, unlike we "poor mortals," Gods are not two dimensional. Suppose an aspect of Stratis -- whether or not an Avatar -- was dealing with the "mortals" on Oerth, while his "real" self was suddenly attacked by Hextor in "the heavens."
Hextor knows he killed his brother, while the mortals on Oerth thought they had done it, when they apparently "slew" the aspect/avatar.
Great idea its true mortals could of fought an Avatar of Stratis. Perhaps upon Stratis's death by Hextor it allowed the mortals to gain that lucky shot while Stratis essence was being sucked dry from his Oerthly avatar.
Icarus,
That was pretty cool of you to contact the author. It would be great to chat with him on his work.
Smillian, James, Argon ...
Glad to have thought of it, and I really hope that he responds. But, you know how it is, there's no telling if he uses the same email, or has his settings to get notifications from PM's, it's a year after he last updated the page, etc. But ... here's to hoping
Mystic Scholar ...
Well, that's certainly an interesting variant. I'm not sure I would go that way, involving a more convoluted line, but, it's certainly thinking outside the box, and that's a good thing. I'm sure there'd be some confused clerics after trying to use Divination to find out about Stratis' death, though! And Heironeans would be on a rampage if there were other religions contradicting the "official" story. :) _________________ Owner and Lead Admin: https://greyhawkonline.com<div>Editor-in-Chief of the Oerth Journal: https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal</div><div>Visit my professional art gallery: https://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com</div>
...Great idea its true mortals could of fought an Avatar of Stratis. Perhaps upon Stratis's death by Hextor it allowed the mortals to gain that lucky shot while Stratis essence was being sucked dry from his Oerthly avatar...
-A near simultaneous killing of the god and then his avatar...
In the interest of plugging for this:
jamesdglick wrote:
-What if the killing of Startis which kicked off the war in western Oerik wasn't the first time that Stratis was killed?
1. Hextor kills Stratis in the distant past. Hextor gets a bump in divine rank, Stratis takes a sabbatical.
2. Over a period of time (99 years?), Stratis puts himself back together, or whatever it is that deities do in such circumstances.
3. Stratis returns to duty as god of war and has a good old time for several centuries, mostly in western Oerik.
4. Stratis gets killed (again ) by the heroes, kicking off the war.
5. Rinse, repeat? This has the advantage of being a metaphor for cycles of war (or something... )
If Heironeous, Stratis and Hextor are all brothers of the Oeridian panthenon, then why are Heironeous and Hextor such big wheels in the Flanaess, while Stratis is a nobody?
The time period that Stratis was killed the first time might explain it, assuming you accept the killed by Hextor/then killed much later by the band of heroes thesis. Using Len Lakofka's Suel history timeline:
1. OR 175 or so: Hextor kills Stratis (my interpolation).
2. OR 177: Oeridian prophets give the word to get out of Ull.
3. OR 187: Oeridian migration to the Flanaess peaks.
4. OR 223: Invoked Devastation and Rain of Colorless Fire.
If Stratis were killed just before the migrations began, he would have been a little out of sorts for a while, as Argon points out:
Argon wrote:
... Stratis corpse was sent to sink into the world ash, though the pull of Nirvana was strong. Stratis spent over a century in Mechanus where he was rebuilt by the natives of the plane grafting onto him two additional arms so that he could defend himself against his treacherous brother. He would be the true champion of law and represent law itself amongst the people of Oerik...
...so Stratis would have been a tad incommunicado during a time of great flux. If clerics et al couldn't get spells, they [Edit: The Oeridians] would have had to look to other gods (first Erythnul, then Hextor), and would have had to fill the gap with substitutes like wizardly magic. Worship of Stratis might have got lost in the shuffle. In the west, meanwhile, they did not face quite the same challenges that those who went east did. Once he recovered, Stratis would have returned to his previous place among westerners.
This also leaves open the possibility that the timing of Hextor might not have been coincidence, but I'm not stuck on it.
FWIW
PS I should point out that I don't have Chainmail (and probably won't for a while). If any of this is canonical babel, let me know.
Last edited by jamesdglick on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:35 am; edited 2 times in total
Babel all you want! I could careless if someones interpretation differs from canon. Besides unless you are writing for the setting on behalf of the IP holder, then canon does not come into play. So continue the religious debate.
...Babel all you want! I could careless if someones interpretation differs from canon...
...well, I care.
Then might I add take a page out of Boccob's playbook. Truth is if everyone stays with canon information only. Instead of having some contradictions, and canon has enough of them as is for the Greyhawk setting. Then the campaign dies if lucky a quick death, instead of a slow painful one.
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It reminds me of some of the word play that Tolkien did in Farmer Giles of Ham.
