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Apprentice Greytalker
Joined: Apr 28, 2003
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:14 pm
Red Death Revision
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I've always liked some aspects of Fate of Istus but the central premise that Istus has sent a deadly plague to facilitate the setting's conversion to 2nd edition leaves me cold.
The module suggests that the adventure occurs in the late 570s CY.
I understand that Expedition to the Barrier Peaks occurs in 576 CY. The crew of the crashed starship were wiped out by a virus. Could it be that the brave adventurers who completed that adventure contracted the Red Death Plague in the starship and inadvertently spread an incurable, extraterrestrial "Andromeda Strain" virus throughout the Flanaess?
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Journeyman Greytalker
Joined: Aug 30, 2001
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From: Niflheim, 9to5
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:32 pm
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I thought the crew was wiped out by the russet mold that turned them all into veggie-pygmies.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:58 am
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There was a previous outbreak in the 490s, although you could totally ignore this, or have it related to an earlier group of adventurers exploring the site, or possibly another site altogether. This sounds like a great idea! Are you planning on using the structure of Fate of Istus to have the adventurers led back to the crash site?
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Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 2592
From: Ullinois
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Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:25 pm
Re: Red Death Revision
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| Raphael wrote: |
I've always liked some aspects of Fate of Istus but the central premise that Istus has sent a deadly plague to facilitate the setting's conversion to 2nd edition leaves me cold.
The module suggests that the adventure occurs in the late 570s CY.
I understand that Expedition to the Barrier Peaks occurs in 576 CY. The crew of the crashed starship were wiped out by a virus. Could it be that the brave adventurers who completed that adventure contracted the Red Death Plague in the starship and inadvertently spread an incurable, extraterrestrial "Andromeda Strain" virus throughout the Flanaess? |
This is a cool idea in any sense to tie two previously unrelated modules together! You got me thinking which is the best part.
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Apprentice Greytalker
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Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:13 am
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IronGolem I went back to Expedition and looked and the plague that wiped out the crew was different than the russet mold. The vegepygmies seem to have arisen after the ship landed and was covered by the rockslide (at which point it seems the crew was already dead).
smillan_31 Is the 490s outbreak mentioned in Fate or in Age of Worms? It is heavily implied in Expedition that the ship has been there for a long time, and it states a computer malfunction occasionally opens the outer door and orders the robots to offload biological "specimens" -- so the 490s outbreak could in fact be sourced to the ship.
I've read through the new Paizo AP Iron Gods which is a clear homage to Expedition (or at least the first "module" is) and that got me thinking what I could do up a Greyhawk version (a loose one). If you haven't seen the first installment of Iron Gods, it is oozing with Gygaxian goodness.
mortellan Anything is better than the official reason for the plague in Fate of Istus. Which is a shame, since the individual adventures are so decent.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:13 pm
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The 490s outbreak is mentioned in Fate of Istus and also in Gary Holian's "Kingdom of Keoland." The first mention in FoI is of an outbreak in Rookroost "... four score years ago" which killed 2,000 people. Assuming a population similar to 576 -- unless Rookroost has had a stunning amount of immigration -- it was kind of a pitiful performance for a pandemic. From the description it also looks like the previous outbreak is not well remembered by the people. We can speculate that it was not just localized in the Bandit Kingdoms because it was also written of by a bard of the time in Elredd and the mention in "Kingdom of Keoland" is of an outbreak in the 490s in Salinmoor. Rookroost could be an outlier as far as mortality, but then you would assume that knowledge of it would be more widely spread. So there's goes one possible theory of why the Flanaess is so sparsely populated. 
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Master Greytalker
Joined: May 12, 2005
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From: Woonsocket, RI, USA
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Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:39 am
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| smillan_31 wrote: |
| The 490s outbreak is mentioned in Fate of Istus and also in Gary Holian's "Kingdom of Keoland." The first mention in FoI is of an outbreak in Rookroost "... four score years ago" which killed 2,000 people. Assuming a population similar to 576 -- unless Rookroost has had a stunning amount of immigration -- it was kind of a pitiful performance for a pandemic. From the description it also looks like the previous outbreak is not well remembered by the people. We can speculate that it was not just localized in the Bandit Kingdoms because it was also written of by a bard of the time in Elredd and the mention in "Kingdom of Keoland" is of an outbreak in the 490s in Salinmoor. Rookroost could be an outlier as far as mortality, but then you would assume that knowledge of it would be more widely spread. So there's goes one possible theory of why the Flanaess is so sparsely populated. |
I don't think a 10–15% mortality rate is anything to laugh at. By contrast, the Spanish flu killed about 5% of the population. They can't all be Captain Trips.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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From: Mt. Smolderac
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Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:55 pm
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| DMPrata wrote: |
| smillan_31 wrote: |
| The 490s outbreak is mentioned in Fate of Istus and also in Gary Holian's "Kingdom of Keoland." The first mention in FoI is of an outbreak in Rookroost "... four score years ago" which killed 2,000 people. Assuming a population similar to 576 -- unless Rookroost has had a stunning amount of immigration -- it was kind of a pitiful performance for a pandemic. From the description it also looks like the previous outbreak is not well remembered by the people. We can speculate that it was not just localized in the Bandit Kingdoms because it was also written of by a bard of the time in Elredd and the mention in "Kingdom of Keoland" is of an outbreak in the 490s in Salinmoor. Rookroost could be an outlier as far as mortality, but then you would assume that knowledge of it would be more widely spread. So there's goes one possible theory of why the Flanaess is so sparsely populated. |
I don't think a 10–15% mortality rate is anything to laugh at. By contrast, the Spanish flu killed about 5% of the population. They can't all be Captain Trips. |
True. Sorry, I'm just using the Black Death as a benchmark. Thanks for pointing out the Spanish Flu though. The Black Death was something that would generate what I guess you could call a generational memory; it had a huge impact on culture, art, the economy and class systems. The Spanish Flu, not quite so much, since most people now seem unaware it ever happened. That seems to be a better comparison to the Red Death of the 490s from the description in FoI. My hope initially was that the Red Death could be used to help explain the relatively low population density of the Flanaess.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:31 pm
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| smillan_31 wrote: |
| ...The Black Death was something that would generate what I guess you could call a generational memory; it had a huge impact on culture, art, the economy and class systems. The Spanish Flu, not quite so much, since most people now seem unaware it ever happened... |
-The Spanish Flu had to shame the stage with other lovely events like World war I, the Russian Revolution, etc.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:15 pm
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| jamesdglick wrote: |
| smillan_31 wrote: |
| ...The Black Death was something that would generate what I guess you could call a generational memory; it had a huge impact on culture, art, the economy and class systems. The Spanish Flu, not quite so much, since most people now seem unaware it ever happened... |
-The Spanish Flu had to shame the stage with other lovely events like World war I, the Russian Revolution, etc. |
You are correct. Bad assumption on my part. We know what they say about making an assumption. I've done some further reading in regards to why the Spanish Flu isn't part of our "collective memory" would probably be a better phrase, and it's pretty fascinating. As you said, the events of WWI and the Russian Revolution had a large impact, but then a lot of credit is given to the massive censorship that took place in the countries involved in the War; that's the most common factor ascribed to the name for the Flu; since Spain was neutral, they didn't have a stake in censoring the news of it, so it seemed to be much worse in Spain than in other places. Another, more anecdotal factor is that the Flu was so terrible, that the reaction of the public to it was the opposite of those in Medieval Europe to the Plague. Instead of enshrining it in art and thought, the public pretty much wanted to forget it ever happened. Evidence pointed to for this is the lack of stories in the press and publishing after the War was over and the need for censorship had passed.
Which leads me back to Greyhawk, and why there would be no real collective memory of the Red Death if it was as widespread as it seems to have been?
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GreySage
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Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:44 pm
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Actually, the Spanish Influenza outbreak of 1918 outclassed World War I and the Russian Revolution.
It is estimated to have killed 500 million people and touched every place on the face of the earth except . . . the Island of St. Helena, famous for serving as Napoleon's prison.
You might also note this: "Most influenza outbreaks disproportionately kill juvenile, elderly, or already weakened patients; in contrast the 1918 pandemic predominantly killed previously healthy young adults."
Very deadly indeed and very much "world wide" in scope. It is estimated that one third of the world's population -- at that time -- was infected, with 3% to 6% of the world's population dying from it.
It is said to have killed more people in one year than the Black Plague killed in a century and more people in 24 weeks than AIDs has killed in 24 years.
I don't think the "Red Death" reached those levels in Greyhawk.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:57 am
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| Mystic-Scholar wrote: |
| ...It is estimated to have killed 500 million people and touched every place on the face of the earth except . . . the Island of St. Helena, famous for serving as Napoleon's prison... |
-Infected 500 million, killed 50-100 million. Which is still more than WWI. Less expoensive, though...
| Mystic-Scholar wrote: |
| ...I don't think the "Red Death" reached those levels in Greyhawk. |
-Probably too many other plagues to stand out?
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GreySage
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:34 pm
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| jamesdglick wrote: |
| Probably too many other plagues to stand out/ |
Not necessarily. The Flanaess isn't the entire World of Greyhawk. It isn't even the entire continent of Oerik.
I'm saying that the Red Death could have been -- but not certain -- of epidemic proportions in the Flanaess, but not necessarily world wide in scope . . . when speaking of Oerth.
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