Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-A Paladin and his warhorse

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:43 am Setting the Scene in the 570sCY

This post is along the similar lines of my Temple of Elemental Evil post. The talk of the Citadel of Eight as the Circle was not yet formed at the time of the original Temple of Elemental Evil made me realise that I don't have a clear idea of the Flanaess at this time (late 570s CY i think off hand).

I do have one of the older source books - which has the general info of the time - the one with the Knights on the front cover and the heraldry in the inside cover. But the info in here is a bit vague. Could anyone recommend any source material that will fill the gaps in my knoweldge of pre-Greyhawk Wars Flanaess? Who was in the Citadel of Eight for example?

Thanks in advance for your help

Wolfling

Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:13 am

There are many versions. The Citadel of Eight was not supposed to be a group. It's a place, another name for the Obsidian Citadel. It was the Citadel of Eight, actually nine, powerful characters. The Circle of Eight was first mentioned in Isle of the Ape, and other than Tenser no other member was mentioned. I think the members were first fleshed out early in the 2E era.

Here's a copy of something I started a while ago. It's still incomplete, but here you go:
The Circle of Eight is well known among Greyhawk fans. Many incarnations of the circle have appeared over the years. For those interested in the original version of the circle, as played by the man who created it and its members, here it is. Some of this information was originally presented in The Rogues Gallery and Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure.

The Circle of Eight
The characters that make up The Circle of Eight are all PCs of Gary Gygax. Some were made from scratch as PC‘s, some were created to serve as recruited henchmen, and a few were encountered NPCs that ended up as permanent additions to the circle. The members of the circle roam the far reaches of the Flanaess and beyond. Several members have magical means of traveling , but others do all their traveling to and from The Obsidian Citadel via normal means.

Mordenkainen
Race: Human; Class: Magic-user; Level: upper 20s; Alignment: Neutral
Mordenkainen appears to be a middle-aged man usually garbed in simple gray robes. His appearance suggests wisdom beyond his percieved age. His hair is black and cropped, his beard black with silver streaks and well waxed. Mordenkainen maintains a large force of mounted archers, and also has two subdued red dragons named Gorki and Porki under his control. Although Mordenkainen is the founder of the circle, it would not be correct to refer to him as the circle's leader. He is more accurately the first among equals.

Bigby
Race: Human; Class: Magic-user; Level: Circa 20; Alignment: Neutral
Bigby was Mordenkainen’s first apprentice. He was originally encountered by Mordenkainen while adventuring. After a quick battle, Mordenkainen subdued Bigby with a Charm Person spell. Mordenkainen treated the ensnared magic-user fairly, and eventually Bigby decided to stay with Mordenkainen on his own free will as his apprentice. Bigby’s appearance is unassuming. His attire is unremarkable. When Mordenkainen is away from the Obsidian Citadel, it is Bigby who assumes the role of steward.

Yrag
Race: Human; Class: Fighter; Level: 19; Alignment: Neutral
Yrag was the first character Gary created. He appears as a stout and hardy man, flaxen haired, and normally dressed in gray and green robes. He stands over 6' tall and is very broad-shouldered. Yrag is ever watchful of things about him, and usually prefers no new undertakings unless these are shared with those persons he knows and trusts.

Riggby
Race: Human; Class: Cleric; Level: Unknown; Alignment: Neutral
Riggby is a cleric of Boccob, with a lesser devotion to Zagyg. He is normally dressed in light gray and off-white colored robes. His eyes are chestnut brown, his hair pure black.

Felnorith
Race: Human; Class: Fighter; Level: Circa 12; Alignment: Neutral
Felnorith is known as the Sword Collector, and he has a large collection of magical blades.

Sigby Grigbyson
Race: Human; Class: Fighter; Level: 10; Alignment: Neutral (Good)
Abilities: Strong suits are Dexterity and Constitution. Strength is good. Wisdom is low. Charisma is well above average. Comeliness is above average.
Mordenkainen met Sigby Grigbyson in Dyvers. The former was looking for an addition to his personal entourage and was impressed with the young fighters abilities. Sigby hails from The Archbarony of Ratik. The events that led him from that distant place to the central regions of the continent are not recorded, but Sigby is known as an inveterate wanderer and it may have been simple wanderlust. Sigby honors the god Fharlanghn and like the Dweller on the Horizon, he is able to travel great distances afoot without tiring. Whether this is some blessing bestowed upon him by Fharlanghn, or if it is accomplished by some magical device in unknown. Sigby is a quite likable fellow, and with his high Charisma and Comeliness he rarely has a problem getting along. Sigby is well known for his swordplay. He wields a marvelous blade that strikes well and parries likewise. Recently, Sigby was spotted in the City of Greyhawk. It is rumored that he is planning on traveling north to the Obsidian Citadel to call upon Mordenkainen. Possibly to share information and give over some item he may be carrying with him.

Ziggby
Race: Mountain Dwarf; Class: Fighter; Level: Aprox. 11th; Alignment: Neutral
Ziggby, more commonly known as "Zig", is the leader of Mordenkainen's 300 or so dwarven followers. These dwarves were the primary builders of the Obsidian Citadel. During his last adventure, he fought the evil dwarf Obmi and the dwarven throwing hammers were flying. Ziggby had the upper hand, but Obmi managed to escape.

Vin & Vram
Race: Elf; Class: Fighter/Magic-User: Level: Unknown; Alignment: Neutral (Chaotic Good)
Vin and Vram are twin brothers.

The Obsidian Citadel
The Citadel of the Eight is a massive fortress. The central structure of the complex is a great citadel and hall. Eight tower keeps arranged in an octagonal pattern surrond the central citadel. These structures are connected by curtain walls and lesser towers. This complex is surronded by an outer wall, also built in an octagonal form. Reports that the Obsidian Citadel is located somewhere in the Yatil Mountains appear to be greatly exaggerated. It may or may not be found there. The actual whereabouts of the fortress may perhaps be unknown, but some believe it is in the rocky hills that are covered by the Vesve Forest...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:43 am Re: Setting the Scene in the 570sCY

I know for sure that an early list of the Co8 appeared in Vecna Lives. There may be an earlier list in the Greyhawk Adventures hardback, but I'm not sure. I think a few members may have been mentioned in the Gord novels as well. One of these sources would be the earliest lists for the official members of the Circle. The first published mention of the Circle in Isle of the Ape assumes that the Circle members are all wizards. I'm not sure this was mentioned in the text, but it was Gary's intention, and it was from this idea that later versions of the Circle grew. This was in the early-mid 580s. Anything before that was retro-fitted into the setting.
It's my opinion that members of the Circle being present at the Battle of Emridy Meadows is a bad one.
Robilar was 10th level in 570 CY when he freed the Nine, which means the Greyhawk campaign began in the late 560s. Based on this, in 569 CY, even if the Circle was around, its members weren't powerful enough to be a major force in the Battle of Emridy Meadows. Serten the cleric, who, if I'm remembering the official campaign version correctly, died there, hadn't even begun his adventuring career yet.
One of the trends in Greyhawk writing that I never liked is a tendency to try to tie as many elements together as possible at every opportunity. Iuz, Tharizdun, and the Co8 being the big offenders. This is one of those cases.
Scott

Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:57 am Robilar walks into a bar with a rabbit on his head...

ScottyG, Wolfing and the rest of you Canoneers,

Have you checked out this document (below) about the Co8 from the LGJ#0? I think it's super, and it gives a plausable history for the group.

http://www.furyondy.com/documents/LG%20Circle%20of%20Eight%20Web.pdf

ScottyG is right; the members of the Co8 were lower levels during the late 590's-- Mordenkainen's Fantastik Adventure (which I'm assuming takes place in the mid 560's?) puts Mordie at 12th level, Bigby at 10th, and Rigby and Yrag at 9th. This makes them at most a couple levels higher in 569, not powerful enough to take out a demon queen IMO.

However, there are (must be) other powerful mages and priests (non-canon) hanging around that could be tapped to seal the temple.

Here's an idea, I suggest the construction of a "possibility timeline" around the period that players are in the ToEE. Determine what will happen at what point in time. For example, have the PC's starting the temple in the late spring, and plan that Robilar will arrive in the high summer and does his smash and release thing. Or plan that the Church in Veluna and Verbobonc sends a group of clerics and paladins at a certain point, or that the leaders of the temple, left to thier own devices, either release Tzuggtmoy or kill each other, whatever you want. Just make it tough for the PC's...that's the whole point...right?!?

FL
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Nixiespixies and grigs OH MY!

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:11 am

thanks Scott.

I'm thinking that I may create my own version of the Eight...having three characters with rhyming names is sloppy and cheesy hehe but the information you gave me has been really helpful.

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:29 am

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:27 pm

At the risk of sounding immodest, check out my own Living Greyhawk Gazetteer Addendums for infomation on the various societies, including the ones that existed before the Wars. Most of the information there can be adapted for pre-Wars games, especially the personalities of the older previous rulers who have been replaced since the Wars.

Besides that, simply flip through the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and extrapolate information on the various countries, including the ones now destroyed. You can find information on the numbers of provinces, coinage, and all that, things that will not likely change in a post-Wars period. Also, pay attention to the last part of each nation's History section-those detail conditions and developments since the early to mid 570s CY. All you need to do is back up the timeline, pretend as if the events that happened before the beginning of your campaign never occured, and begin from there.

In the end, however, you should really try and get a copy of the 1983 boxed set. That, more than anything else, will offer all the info you need to get a pre-Wars campaign off the ground.

Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:33 am Re: Setting the Scene in the 570sCY

Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:52 am

Now lets return to the topic.

My campaign taken place around 570 CY winds around

1. the Battle of Emridy Meadows (PCs met after the battle at hospital, actually in the Cathedral of the Holy Cudgel in Verbobonc. Comes into play all useful material from 83 boxed set, ToEE, and subsequent products on Verbobonc, say Fate of Istus, Vecna Lives, etc).
2. the return of Mordenkainen and co, after their foray in Castle Maure (Mordy and co return to present at the funeral of Serten, only to recognize a prank. Comes into play all useful material from LGJ#0).
3. the delivery of dispelling magics to Robilar (Involves pass through the Gnarley forest to Castle Robilar, Wild Coast. Comes into play all useful material from Iuz the Evil (pp. 5), and Epic Level Handbook).
4. Beggars-thieves war in Greyhawk City (Comes into play all useful material from Saga of the Old City, first Gord novel).

Merry Christmas,

tz
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"It is easier to milk a cow that stands still." Tzeliobas-Aristomenes, General Cleaning, Greyhawk Construction Company.

Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:59 am

Tzelios, I just started a new campaign in 570 CY very similar in scope. I'll be running a main game that will include many of the classic adventures, and will include many of the important events of the 570s. I will also be running a side adventure in and around Greyhawk Castle. I'm hoping to have my PCs free the Nine, and know they were responsible for the re-emergence of Iuz.
Scott

Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:16 am

Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:31 am