Introduced in Races of Destiny (RoD), the Illumians are a new “canon” Greyhawk race, whose most distinguishing feature are glowing “sigils” that wreath their heads and which bestow on individual Illumians, depending on the exact type of sigil, certain powers, abilities or advantages.
The canon “credentials” of the Illumians are chiefly manifest through references to the Greyhawk deities St. Cuthbert and Vecna (there are other mentions but they escape me at the moment). The “feel” of the Illumians is suitably “Grey” if one takes into account Greyhawk’s relationship with the Plane of Shadow; the largest single concentration of Illumians is located on the Plane of Shadow.
While there may be a natural, I think, reaction against Illumians in Greyhawk, IMO, that needs to be gotten beyond. The Illumians are not necessarily the outlandish gatecrashers they first appear to be. They are extremely secretive, even paranoid. And they can "turn off" their "headlights." They will thus not be found strolling through the streets of Greyhawk with their "lights" flashing. As they are "new," one might with some (retro-fitted) logic say that there may not be that many of them in the Flanaess for them to have gone unnoticed until "now." So, able to "blend," secretive and few in number, the Illumians become a DM option. "Canon" but hardly an explosive setting breaker, easily enough ignored if a DM doesn't care to use them.
The most intriguing aspect of the Illumians, however, is their possible connection with Mt. Mathmagahma (sp), which is located in the northwest Yatil Mountains and is described in the College of Wizardry (CW) product. CW introduces the concept of a primeval language that is magical in its very nature, with transformative properties. This idea has been further developed/revisited in Tome and Blood and the Complete Arcane. Of course, the Illumians are and guard the secret of the Word Made Flesh. The Word Made Flesh and the language primevel have obvious similarities. Whether they are actually related in more than surface way remains to be seen. I have not reread CW lately, so I am unable to speak with confidence. The possibility is, however, intriguing.
As, perhaps, the “signature” or at least most easily discernable feature of RoD, the Illumians should put no one off the product on their account alone. Buy RoD for the ideas, stick around for the Illumians.
While nothing gets the good GH vibe going like throwing a new race in the mix, the subject and source really belongs in Greyhawk D20. So its moved!
In regards to the Illumians I think FirePower has a good idea on where abouts to base them and has some notes about the other 'new' races and classes on Oerth. _________________ Canonfire Community Supporter and Forum Justicar
While nothing gets the good GH vibe going like throwing a new race in the mix, the subject and source really belongs in Greyhawk D20. So its moved!
In regards to the Illumians I think FirePower has a good idea on where abouts to base them and has some notes about the other 'new' races and classes on Oerth.
What the . . . This isn't Pismo Beach! I knew I should've taken that left in Albuquerque.
I suppose I don't mind the thread move. Shanghai is nice this time of year from what I hear.
However, matter of procedure, d20 is commonly used to identify products published under the d20 license. No products published by Wotc are published under the d20 license and hence, no Wotc product is a "d20 product." If Races of Destiny is a d20 product, then so is the Complete Divine, the Player's Handbook etc. The last non-d20 product would be the LGG. After that, everything would belong here. All 3rd Edition discussion.
I have no objection to a thread duplication, one iteration here and one in the general discussion folder, but I don't think a confinement of 3rd Edition Wotc products to this thread is merited. I humbly request the casting of a "clone spell."
I think Firepower's approach is very interesting. Each of these classes raises fascinating questions with respect to GH. And Illumian Hexblades, Thralls of Grazzt . . . Well . . .
However, matter of procedure, d20 is commonly used to identify products published under the d20 license. No products published by Wotc are published under the d20 license and hence, no Wotc product is a "d20 product." If Races of Destiny is a d20 product, then so is the Complete Divine, the Player's Handbook etc. The last non-d20 product would be the LGG. After that, everything would belong here. All 3rd Edition discussion.
hmm..<looks on the back of Races of Destiny> I see a d20 system left of the Wizards of the Coast symbol. Wonder what that means?
Actually lets look again at the folder header shall we..
All things Greyhawk and d20. Conversions, adaptions, new material, NPC's, rules, PrC's, feats, core classes, and anything to do with 3.5 edition, D&D, or d20 as long as it's Greyhawk specific, can be posted and discussed here!
Ok sounds like it fits. And is useful. And your thread is shadowed. So far so good. After all I wouldnt want to this to be a 'failure' now would I?
Smarminess aside, the general discussion is fine to post this but, it has limited appeal, despite what you many have heard not everyone has a copy of Races of Destiny nor plays 3e. So here it has a home for the time being and its shadow in the General Discussion.
Thanks for your support. _________________ Canonfire Community Supporter and Forum Justicar
First off - GVD, could you expand on the mentality and philosophy of illumians, and the workings of their "rune-lights" (not mechanics, but...do their "rune-powers" work if the lights are off?). I've got a few ideas, but don't have RoD to make whats written match what I might write.
Second - Dethand, WotC owns the d20 logo. They can put it on a box of cereal if they like. Everything released for 3.0 or 3.5 has carried the d20 logo, but the ONLY book to include Open Game Content is Unearthed Arcana (and 2 pages in the back of MM2). No, not even the Player's Handbook, the DMG, or the MM have OGC. Really. It's true.
I could see this forum working as a place to post conversions of earlier material to 3e mechanics, or perhaps to discuss mechanical changes to GH taken from non-WOtC sources (ie, Arcana Unearthed or the Scarred Lands), but to demand that all threads concerning material taken from a post 3e book is unreasonable. GVD isn't discussing anything intrinsicly related to 3.5 rules; he's discussing the flavor of adding illumians to GH.
If all threads involving 3.5 rules are to be posted here, then I expect to see several new forums to be opened likewise, for D&D, AD&D, and AD&D 2e-accessory based conversations (and the '83 boxed set will only be discussed in the 1e forum, of course, since not all of us have 1e Player's Handbooks).
Second - Dethand, WotC owns the d20 logo. They can put it on a box of cereal if they like. Everything released for 3.0 or 3.5 has carried the d20 logo, but the ONLY book to include Open Game Content is Unearthed Arcana (and 2 pages in the back of MM2). No, not even the Player's Handbook, the DMG, or the MM have OGC. Really. It's true
Yes. Yes it is. On the point to my moving the thread to a d20 is the relative obscurity of not only the source material but the relevancy of the general GH content. As you might have missed my smiley it was more in jest. Sorry that you were upset. However, it remains that a casual gamer having all 3.5e core books (PHB, DMG, MM) would still be at a loss of what an Illumian is let alone someone who mainly plays a later edition.
Nellisir wrote:
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I could see this forum working as a place to post conversions of earlier material to 3e mechanics, or perhaps to discuss mechanical changes to GH taken from non-WOtC sources (ie, Arcana Unearthed or the Scarred Lands), but to demand that all threads concerning material taken from a post 3e book is unreasonable. GVD isn't discussing anything intrinsicly related to 3.5 rules; he's discussing the flavor of adding illumians to GH.
OK. I did not say that threads could not be posted here of limited relevance or we need worry about edition specifics of a post before sending anything to WoG Discussion, note it is shadowed. Also discussions of hard core edtion mechanics should have some relevance to GH specifically in any case. The d20 subfolder is a place for this thread and is relative to 3e material that it came from, if the topic was about elves or gnomes or a race that has been with the AD&D setting then I would agree that it had relevance to a General WoG discussion. This thread will still be in the WoG Discussion for a long time but will soon be rolled over as the new topics pop up, and having a second home in the d20 will ensure its relevance for anyone looking for things on Illumians. Case in point, where would you look for information about Illumians in the WoG?
In short the reason for moving the post is to tidy up a bit. Sorry that it had some controversy. Hmm a typical day on Canonfire. _________________ Canonfire Community Supporter and Forum Justicar
Dethand - I've been having a pretty up and down day, and it was pretty down when I posted that. Though I stand by my opinions, I expressed them rather harshly, and I apologize for that.
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Case in point, where would you look for information about Illumians in the WoG?
I looked in the General board, which is where I found (and continue to find) this thread. I wasn't aware Delglath had relinquished his hold on the Greyhawk d20 Project forum.
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However, it remains that a casual gamer having all 3.5e core books (PHB, DMG, MM) would still be at a loss of what an Illumian is let alone someone who mainly plays a later edition.
And someone without an nice collection of old Dragon magazine's would be at a loss for snow elves. 3.5, for that matter, barely touches on grugach, never mind a reference to a 1st level assassin, cavalier, or thief. Most people play 3.5. Canonfire's own polls showed that.
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if the topic was about elves or gnomes or a race that has been with the AD&D setting then I would agree that it had relevance to a General WoG discussion.
That statement right there is where I, alas, stop. I can't find a way to read it that doesn't say "if it came after 3e, it's not really important". We'll just have to disagree, I think.
Ok a few things first. I am a hard core 3.5e DM. I never intended to have it mean that anything 3e is of limited use in GH, who knows in 10 years we may well be agreeing on the placement of Illumians in GH :wink:but, I am also aware that even those who play 3e also dont have everything that comes out, let alone those that play later editions. So before this turns into an edition war, lets say that if you didnt play 3.5e your chance of owning the Races of Destiny is slim. If you want to fit them in GH I would suggest the d20 folder, but its not required, thus the split in topics. In either case someone posting about snow elves or putting up something on grugrach cavaliers dosent have to prove relevance to GH or canon, though I may note both have been updated to 3e. I think most people who play later editions have access to the older stuff so updates arent as important in mentioning an older source of GH goodness. In that vein I would point out the Tasha article. Good use of material but open enough to not be gibberish to those not playing that paticular flavor of D&D.
Now to the d20 folder here it sums up the d20 project. Some help in posting would be nice from someone calling those forums a failure , but since you didnt look there but here I suppose its my fault that I dont pimp it more. In any case its a worthy topic to have split.
And I think we can agree on that. _________________ Canonfire Community Supporter and Forum Justicar
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I humbly request the casting of a "clone spell." 
, but since you didnt look there but here I suppose its my fault that I dont pimp it more. In any case its a worthy topic to have split.