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    Canonfire :: View topic - Merchant House in Greyhawk
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Merchant House in Greyhawk
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 10, 2011
    Posts: 28
    From: Columbus, Ohio

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    Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:34 pm  
    Merchant House in Greyhawk

    I am new to the details of Greyhawk, so forgive me if this is an obvious one (I checked the Gazetter and EttRCG for this info). Is there a known merchant house/powerful merchant in the City of Greyhawk who is on the shady side? If you have played Fable 3 (not really recommended), I am thinking of someone in the vain of Reaver. Otherwise, I will just lift him from F3 for my purposes.

    Thanks!
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:35 am  

    Though I don't have access to my City of Greyhawk boxed set right now, I seem to remember that there was an elf on the City Council who was a merchant and a bit shady (IIRC, he was in over his head with gambling debts and turns up dead in From the Ashes.

    Of course, Nerof Gasgul and Org Nenshen (Mayor/Thieve's Guild Member and Guildmaster of Thieves respectively) - both also City Council Members - are quite intricately involved with merchantilism in Greyhawk.

    I might also suggest that Maldin and his partner are also quite suspect as shady entrepreneurs within Greyhawk, but I might never be heard from again if I do, so I'll refrain. Razz

    SirXaris
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    Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:35 am  

    Thanks for the information!
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:37 pm  

    If you're using the City of Greyhawk boxed set, then two people for you to consider are 'The Weasel' and 'The Duke.'

    'The Weasel' is the Master Thief in charge of the Thieves Guild’s operations in the Foreign Quarter.

    ‘The Duke’ is Duke Garand and he's ‘the boss’ of the Foreign Quarter. He is a loan shark and has an interest in nearly every business in that part of the city.

    If you're "doing business" in Greyhawk city, you'll eventually end up in the Foreign Quarter, where Greyhawk law requires all foreign merchants to live. Wink
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:45 am  

    The Duke might be that guy I am looking for. Thanks for the information.
    GreySage

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    Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:06 am  

    He also operates "The Pit," the underground gladiatorial arena in Greyhawk City. Because of this, he has dealings with the Slave Lords. Wink
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:51 pm  

    In 591 CY, Duke Garand fell into the Hell Hound exhibit at Lord Henway's Menagerie leading to his demise.

    Some say he was pushed. Some say the Thieves Guild did it.

    The event was described in Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins.

    Still others say that a shadowy group of hit men masquerading as librarians and lore masters who were known to hang out at a social club called "AOL" called for the hit on Duke Garand, but that would be rumor mongering at its most base and irresponsible.

    On a more serious note. if one wants to run a canonical game set in GH city, its a good idea to consult TAB, as it covers the city in some detail, and advances a fair number of things from the 1989 boxed set.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:30 am  

    nematode wrote:
    In 591 CY, Duke Garand fell into the Hell Hound exhibit at Lord Henway's Menagerie leading to his demise.


    Very true. But if Amerigov is running a game based upon the '83 boxed set -- as the above posts imply -- then Duke Garand is "alive and well" and in charge of the Foreign Quarter.

    Depends on the CY year in which Amerigov's game is based. After all, Garand was alive and well and in charge in 590 CY. Wink

    And the Thieves' Guild killed him for his betting and fencing operations -- etc. -- at The Pit. Evil Grin
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:34 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    nematode wrote:
    In 591 CY, Duke Garand fell into the Hell Hound exhibit at Lord Henway's Menagerie leading to his demise.


    Very true. But if Amerigov is running a game based upon the '83 boxed set -- as the above posts imply -- then Duke Garand is "alive and well" and in charge of the Foreign Quarter.


    Where does the OP say anything about the 83 box? The OP stated that he was using 3.x era resources: "the Gazetter and EttRCG". The NPC in question was dead in the timeline covered by the 3.x era products.

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:

    And the Thieves' Guild killed him for his betting and fencing operations -- etc. -- at The Pit. Evil Grin


    Yes - it was the Thieves Guild, and that's what I said, but I didn't say it clearly. It was lost in my comment about AOL which was an in joke about how TAB was written, with the help of the player community - some of whom read this board. At the time it was sort of infamous, that the writers of TAB unceremoniously got rid of Garand as well as Tang the Horrific and Ren O the Star, and some other NPCs were dispensed with too, the implication being, that the writers of TAB were taking out the trash. Which they were.
    GreySage

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    Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:29 am  

    It was Sir Xaris who referred to the City of Greyhawk boxed set and I enlarged upon that.

    Amerigov responded positively to that suggestion, as well as to my suggestion of using "The Duke" character from the same boxed set. My comment "the above posts" was in response to Amerigov's apparently liking the suggestions.

    Also, you offered the Thieves' Guild as one of three possibilities -- one of them obviously humorous, of course -- whereas The Adventure Begins makes it much more obvious. I simply pointed that fact out in a more direct manner.

    Your post reads as though you're taking offense at imagined slights. No one was dismissing you, or your quite valid comments and suggestions. Everyone has an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid. I try to enjoy each and everyone.

    Please do not take offense where none is given.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:28 pm  

    Well, I am not here to get people riled up (that is what EnWorld is for Smile). The Duke, in concept, fits my needs. It is true I am not back in the '83 box set (I do not even own it). So here is my solution.

    The Duke's son/daughter (or would it be grandson - how much time has passed to 597 considering the Duke's age at death, etc?) is angling for position to get his (or her) revenge. Nicknamed "the Prince" (or Princess), they are seriously considering the coming invasion as a way to not only restore their former family power but to significantly leverage it.

    The Prince fits nicely as (1) it is the next rank down in title and (2) fits with the real life book of political machinations.

    The Duke was over the foreign quarter. Was he in fact foreign born, or that was just his area of power? If unknown, I might make him foreign born to further create a wedge in loyalty between his descendant and the city.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:09 am  

    Duke Garand was indeed foreign born. Greyhawk law specifies that all foreigners must live in the Foreign Quarter -- until certain legal requirements are met.

    Prince/Princess is one step down from King/Queen, but not "Duke." Many Princes are made "Dukes," modern day England comes to mind. But the rank is: Duke, Marquis, Count (Earl in England) Viscount, Baron, Baronet, Knight, Squire, Gentleman.

    (Yep, "Gentleman" was a "class." That's why grown men called Sherlock, "Mr. Holmes," while he called them "Tom," "Henry," et al.)

    Earl's were only in England and were the equals of the continental "Count." Baronet was the lowest ranking hereditary title.

    Of course, you're quite welcome to use "Prince/Princess" as the Duke's heir's title. Wink Laughing

    But bare in mind that this heir is seeking revenge against the Thieves' Guild. And that's ambitious indeed! Evil Grin

    The adventure involving your players could revolve around the fact that this heir is building his/her power in order to confront the Thieves' Guild.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:17 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    Prince/Princess is one step down from King/Queen, but not "Duke." Many Princes are made "Dukes," modern day England comes to mind. But the rank is: Duke, Marquis, Count (Earl in England) Viscount, Baron, Baronet, Knight, Squire, Gentleman.


    The World of Greyhawk Folio has its own system of order of precedence, as recognized by the former Great Kingdom states, thus:

    1. Overking or Emperor
    2. Padisha or Kha-Khan
    3. King, Rhelt, Master, Caliph, Pasha
    4. Duke Palatine, Grand Duke, Prince Palatine, Theocrat, Archcleric, Beygraf, Tarkhan, Orakhon, Ilkhan
    5. Herzog, Duke, Fasstal, Prince, Count Palatine, Ambassador, Voorman, Censor, Freeholder, Prelate, Hetman, Hierarch, Ataman
    6. Margrave, Marquis, Earl, Count, Archbaron, Plar, Grandee, Despotrix, Khan, Amir, Commandant, Altmeister
    7. Szek, Viscount, Baron, Lord Mayor, Magistar, Emissary
    8. Knight Commander, Mayor, Chief, Laird
    9. Knight, Spokesman

    Things are a little different in the former Keoish states, in which the order goes: Duke, Prince, Margrave or Marquis, Earl or Graf or Count, Viscount, Baron, Lord Mayor, Knight Commander, Knight Banneret, Mayor, Knight Companion, Knight Bachelor, Knight, Elder, Gentleman, Esquire, Yeoman.

    So in Keoland, a duke outranks a prince. In the Great Kingdom or Nyrond, a duke and a prince are of equal rank. The heir of a now-deceased duke would also be a duke, of course.

    However, functionally these titles aren't going to be as important as the importance of the territories you control, or other power considerations. The Black One of the Valley of the Mage is only a Laird (so he is properly addressed as "Your Honor" or "Your Worship") but as the ruler of an independent state and a powerful wizard he's probably going to be treated with more respect than the Duke of the Reach in Furyondy, despite the fact that the Duke of the Reach technically outranks him. Similarly, the Duke of Urnst or the Duke of Ulek is more important than the Duke of the Reach, since the former two are monarchs in all but name while the Duke of the Reach is subordinate to King Belvor. Meanwhile the Grand Duke of Geoff is not more important than the Duke of Ulek, even though the Grand Duke of Geoff technically outranks him.

    According to Ivid the Undying, the Great Kingdom has "literally thousands" of men, descendants of various royal houses, who style themselves "princes." Anyone descended from a royal house is of royal blood, even if their house hasn't ruled the land in centuries. Bigby and Mordenkainen could both be considered princes, though neither uses the title. And functionally the title doesn't mean much unless a "prince" has lands to back it up (and is in most cases really equivalent to "gentleman" or "esquire"). So a duke might well be a prince, although the title "duke" tends to be a more impressive one.
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