Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Second Greyhawk War
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Second Greyhawk War
    Author Message
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 222
    From: Modena, Italy

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:04 am  
    Second Greyhawk War

    I am playing a GH campaign which is set in early 596CY. I am thinking about having a new war explode sometime in the close future.
    I am not using LGG material, but I include all Carl Sargent writings.
    How do you think the war would explode? Which states would be in war and how would it develop? Any ideas?
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2701
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:13 am  

    It seemed quite funny to me when the official Greyhawk Wars was published because I had written up a draft of just such an event years before which was nearly identical (except that the Thillonrian barbarians' involvement was opportunistic raiding rather than full-out invasion and the Scarlet Brotherhood wasn't so ambitious as to cross the Azure to invade the Sea Princes). So, the way it was handled seems fairly natural.

    However, there are other possibilities. For example, a Baklunish horde akin to Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun in real life (i.e. another Brazen Horde) could devastate much of the Baklunish west and pour through Ket into the Sheldomar basin (Keoland). this event will draw much of the military strength of Furyondy/Veluna from their northern border with Iuz who would likely grasp the opportunity to make his own grab for additional territory. Perhaps Ivid IV of the Great Kingdom gains access to some magical artifact that allows him to raise a huge army all at once. Such a campaign could even be centered in the Great Kingdom where Ivid IV's armies rape and pillage his own vassals in order to bring the entire kingdom in line again. Serious holdouts in the Adri and Grandwood forests could stymie him while his neighbors pick at the borders.

    You could also use an invasion of Outsiders such as githyanki, as is presented in some official product (though I don't know which product that is), demons and devils of the Bloodwar pour into the Flanaess and make much of it desolate (as in Dark Sun), or the Drow pour forth with their armies of humanoids and worse from many unknown entrances to DeepOerth and conquer the major cities of the land.

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:47 am  

    Nyrond has always been considered the *Force for Good* in the east and therefore somewhat of a *check* on the encroachment of Iuz, because of it's military might.

    The Great Kingdom has always wanted to bring Nyrond back into the fold. Should the Great Kingdom raise large forces -- as suggested above -- Nyrond would be hard pressed to defend itself.

    Nyrond's entanglement in such a war would no doubt encourage Iuz to make his move south.

    Just a thought.
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2701
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:02 am  

    I've just remembered the Seanchan invasion from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Perhaps the kingdoms of Aquaria east across the Solnor Ocean mount an invasion of the east coast of the Flanaess. The rest of the nations could fail to react appropriately since they are not concerned with the Great Kingdom being overthrown. Too late, they realize that the invasion isn't going to stop there. Perhaps even Iuz has to throw his forces into the fight to repel the invaders. Maybe the Scarlet Brotherhood make a deal to ally with the invaders in order not to be destroyed themselves. Their ships could make a surprise attack upon Greyhawk City itself or anywhere else behind the invasion's front lines.

    SirXaris
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
    Posts: 160


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:06 am  

    I think the logical place to begin is a war between the sucessor states to the Great Kingdom. Both rulers seem to be ruthless and ambitious; I can easily see one jump on the other if the opportunity presents.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:28 am  

    A fight over *ownership* of Rauxes sounds quite plausible for these two powers.
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
    Posts: 1234
    From: New Jersey

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:33 am  

    The Pale could look to annex Nyrond and free it from it's heathen like state. That's the Pale's outlook. Yes a fight to reunite the kingdom I can see both forces looking to liberate Rauxes and later for control of it. Bissel fighting for control of Thornward wishing to rid themselves of the foreign governments in their land.

    You wanted to start a second war get to it.

    Argon
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 12, 2005
    Posts: 266


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:41 am  

    I think a future war is implied in everything post GH-Wars as the treaty is clearly far from stable. Historically, wars that end in treaties that are largely agreed to because of the exhaustion and attrition suffered by the combatants rarely last as the underlying grievances remain.

    In the real world, of course, we do not have evil demi-gods and demons roaming the planet so historical parallels are less than perfect.

    For me, Nyrond has a lot of pent up bitterness that could be turned into Imperialism though I'm not sure how the LG material has altered the country. The fractured Great Kingdom is perfect for a struggle for the vacant throne type scenario. Equally, the Scarlet Brotherhood seem unlikely to sit on their current conquests and must have further ambitions.

    For my part, I have always disliked the idea of a world war type scenario as from the Wars boxed set onward it seemed quite contrived to me. For the most part, wars in medieval times were very localised sometimes with combatants switching allegiances during the course of the war.

    My own preference would be for individual flash points to erupt over the years and resolve themselves (or not) with a worldwide conflict largely a coincidence if it happens.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2701
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:00 am  

    Flint wrote:
    For my part, I have always disliked the idea of a world war type scenario as from the Wars boxed set onward it seemed quite contrived to me. For the most part, wars in medieval times were very localised sometimes with combatants switching allegiances during the course of the war.

    My own preference would be for individual flash points to erupt over the years and resolve themselves (or not) with a worldwide conflict largely a coincidence if it happens.


    Localized wars are also my preference for two reasons: it is more historically accurate for Medieval civilizations and a single group of PCs can't very well participate in battles all over the Flanaess that happen at the same time. Allow one group of PCs to be involved in a war between a small number of states, then, if it is desirable, allow them to make up new characters to be involved in wars elsewhere.

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:18 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    Localized wars are also my preference for two reasons: it is more historically accurate for Medieval civilizations.


    This is why I never liked the Greyhawk Wars to begin with. Too much "magical" communication. I mean, except for magical means, how in the heck did the Great Kingdom know that Iuz was on the move, or what Furyondy's response was? Confused

    Even the Pony Express would have taken a couple of months. It was all just too much for me. Localized wars are more my thing because I like my Greyhawk to have a more medieval tone. And the Magicians and Magical Societies of my Greyhawk aren't that friendly, so as to keep each other posted on everything, even wars. Shocked

    But each of us plays our Greyhawk as we wish. Wink
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:03 pm  

    If the Great Kingdom has magic-users on staff (and of course, Ivid V is himself a magic-user), I'm not sure why they wouldn't be expected to use the spells in the Player's Handbook to stay abreast of current events. The Overking doesn't have to limit himself to closed-mouthed magical societies for information; surely he can afford to hire a magician of his own.

    The D&D game is a high-magic one in any incarnation. I don't think there's any logical way to look at the powers available to a D&D spellcaster and not expect the ruler of a major kingdom to avail himself of them, unless the player characters are somehow the only ones with access.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 29


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:40 pm  

    The Great Kingdom, such a powerful force of Order and Good at one time reduced to debauched and stained fragments. (Reduced to such a low state by Demogorgon IMO but that's another story entirely Wink ) The fragment states are as stated above ruthless and power-hungry men who seek to become the next 'emperor' no matter the cost. Nyrond is the stumbling block for them, undermining it's stability would be a key to allowing one or the other would-be emperors to gain at least a hint of legitimacy by taking what Ivid couldn't. If Nyrond falls then a westward expansion is inevitable. The Pale, Urnsts even Furyondy would be at risk. If this isnt' the seeds to a continent wide war I don't know what is.

    (Which would please the Sibilant Beast to no end, but that too is another story Wink )
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2010
    Posts: 114


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:57 pm  

    One of the biggest pains in the **** as a DM, imo, is dealing with communication and transportation magicks. As Rasgon notes, any ruler should have access to some decent mages, and some clerics too I think, with divination and communication spells. Heck, by 9th or 10th level, a wizard can teleport a pretty good distance, cast invisibility and fly, scout around with nigh impunity, and then teleport back to report. The question I guess is, how many mages are there? Obviously, not everyone with an Int 12 or higher becomes a mage, right?

    One way of dealing with "high magic" problems, imo, is to determine rarity or high-level casters. One thing I like about 3.x's population design rules in the DMG is the rough ability it has of determining how many and how powerful members of each class should be in the city. HOWEVER, obviously that system is arbitrary and doesn't account for all the new base classes that have since been introduced (should scouts be a subset of rogues? rangers?). Still, if someone wanted to get really detailed populations generated, it's something that could be used.

    Personally, I think the idea of Greyhawk Wars is a bit silly. I view high-level spellcasters as too powerful to be contained by mere nation-states. I've always had the feeling that if somehow a (NERD ALERT!) holodeck simumlation of Oerth could be created based off all canon references, the planet would soon be destroyed by the machinations of high-level spellcasters (especially since the introduction of epic spells in 3.x).

    Aurdraco


    Last edited by SC-Tiny on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
    Posts: 290
    From: The Pomarj

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:18 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    If the Great Kingdom has magic-users on staff (and of course, Ivid V is himself a magic-user), I'm not sure why they wouldn't be expected to use the spells in the Player's Handbook to stay abreast of current events. The Overking doesn't have to limit himself to closed-mouthed magical societies for information; surely he can afford to hire a magician of his own.

    The D&D game is a high-magic one in any incarnation. I don't think there's any logical way to look at the powers available to a D&D spellcaster and not expect the ruler of a major kingdom to avail himself of them, unless the player characters are somehow the only ones with access.


    A nation as old and established as the Great Kingdom would very likely have intelligence agents (AKA: spies) in every other nation worth their attention. Certainly one with a paranoid ruler like Ivid would. Also, keep in mind many of the other nations of the Flanaess used to be part of the Great Kingdom, and I'm sure all the overkings had dreamt of reclaiming these lands which are "rightfully" part of the Great Kingdom, whether they like it or not. So, a semi-maniacal overking may even feel that he has a right to send his agents into these lands.
    As you suggested, Ivid may very likely have other magicians "on staff", and would recognize the value they have regarding intelligence gathering.

    The other major kingdoms, and many of the smaller ones, would have agents working in other lands as well, I'm sure. Smaller nations may only have agents in neighboring lands, but even those may employ magic users in this capacity, assuming they have the resources.

    What I'm unclear on regarding the Greyhawk Wars is, how common was the knowledge of the Wars breaking out? The scenarios I described would allow rulers to have knowledge of these events, but it's nowhere near a D&D version of CNN. It would be up to the individual rulers to decide how much information should be given out, and to whom.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:54 am  

    I dunno - in previous editions powerful wizards would run out of spells pretty damn quickly. Most high level wizard villains I rolled up were creamed in a few rounds by my PCs, although that might have been partly due to my reluctance to use save or die.

    I actually think that 4e has done a great job by separating rituals out from combat spells. Restricting teleportation to set magical circles was also a good way to keep a lid on unrestricted magical movement, although the lucrative market on dimensional anchors suffered a 75% drop in revenue overnight.

    I was always inspired by the notion that magic was rare and feared (in 1e you had a +2 chance of breaking your opponent's morale if spells were used in the fight). I've always preferred the notion that wizards are reclusive, rare and tend to be thought of as powerful even if they are level 5 or above. I've never liked modules that pitched the local greengrocer as a wizard in some small random village and I'm not a fan of having magical universities or large wizards' guilds in every major city (although presumably if the guilds contain teleport circles roughly 80% of the membership could be the same in every guild as wizards travel freely to use the resources of different locations).

    Kings' courts will always have magicians, often very powerful ones and those magicians will have apprentices who will be charged with scrying, spying, and using summoned beasties to carry messages.

    I think a second 'world war' might be quite hard to DM well and PCs generally only care about events that affect them. However, there is plenty of scope for coups, civil wars, border skirmishes, and full on wars between neighbours. My players seem quite keen on a liberation of Geoff plotline.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 30, 2007
    Posts: 71
    From: Nevond-Nevnend, Duchy of Tenh

    Send private message
    Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:57 am  
    Greyhawk war II

    Never forget too that intelligence that IS gathered is not always accurate, just ask Bush Wink so after its gathered, it has to be analyzed, and mistakes happen.

    I would agree that it would start out as localized battles/wars, and then others would try to take advantage and it would escalate, and or send support, or not, to their allies. Like the old Diplomacy game, who loves you today, may screw you tomorrow, and vice-verse.

    Hmmmm, is TT smelling an idea or three here too?! Laughing

    TT
    _________________
    Servant of Azmekidom the Most Prudent Despot, The Unapproachable One
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:30 am  

    Greetings,

    Please forgive my own perspective, but since you are open to suggestions and ideas:

    It seems to me that there are some distinctive possibilities available to you.

    1) Furyondy, after declaring an unalterable state of war against Iuz for breaching the Pact of Greyhawk, decides to stage a 'holy war' to erradicate the fiend from the face of Oerth. After the countless horrors faced by the victimized people of Furyondy during the first war, the priests of Hieroneous, led by Belvor, strike back, determined to retake all lost lands, including the fallen Shield Lands (annexation?), and potentially those formerly held by the Hierarchs and Bandit Kingdoms (as much for strategic value as religious). However, the main push will be against Iuz in his seat of power. With the Flight of Fiends stripping the cambion of his strongest, most deadly minions, he is far weaker than during his initial conquests. Furyondy would surely turn to its staunchest ally, Veluna, to assist in this crusade, while also turning to other nations for aid, such as Verbobonc and the Highvale.

    2) I very much agree with the idea of a chaotic civil war embroiling what is left of the Great Kingdom. This would devolve into outright genocide and other horrors rivaling those seen during the wars as each major player (animus?) tries to wrest total control from all others and take over the Malachite Throne. This bloodbath could involve any nation along its borders, primarily a weakened Nyrond.

    Just my take. Hope this helps.

    -Lanthorn
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 12, 2005
    Posts: 266


    Send private message
    Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:51 am  

    PaulN6 wrote:
    I was always inspired by the notion that magic was rare and feared (in 1e you had a +2 chance of breaking your opponent's morale if spells were used in the fight). I've always preferred the notion that wizards are reclusive, rare and tend to be thought of as powerful even if they are level 5 or above. I've never liked modules that pitched the local greengrocer as a wizard in some small random village and I'm not a fan of having magical universities or large wizards' guilds in every major city (although presumably if the guilds contain teleport circles roughly 80% of the membership could be the same in every guild as wizards travel freely to use the resources of different locations).

    Kings' courts will always have magicians, often very powerful ones and those magicians will have apprentices who will be charged with scrying, spying, and using summoned beasties to carry messages.


    Without wanting to threadjack, I've always been quite taken by this idea but have never managed to find a way to implement it narratively while maintaining game balance, particularly in 4E.

    One thought I have been toying with recently (mostly inspired by the George RR Martin books that am reading) is making rituals less magical and more mysterious. An example would be mastering a sending or animal messenger type ritual grants you access to message carrying birds or small animals in a similar way to the Maesters of Westeros. Similar handwaving could be done with healing magic and even the raise dead ritual (your almost dead friend will die in a number of days equal to their level unless you get them to a knowledgeable priest with access to the right healing poultices etc.).

    Returning to the original topic, this allows for a more medieval feel to any future war without taking away all the nice shiny spells that PCs can play with. Just a thought.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 04, 2008
    Posts: 75


    Send private message
    Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:31 pm  

    Well, I guess I'm the odd man out; since I really enjoyed the way the Greyhawk wars were described as occuring.....though, I was just coming into D&D in the late 80s-early 90s; so to me; the Cook/Sargent stuff is gold; and I wasn't as aware of the Gygax Folio/'83 boxed set version; and certainly not of the "Original Greyhawk"; cicra early 70s; of Gygax and Kuntz.

    Now that being said; a couple of things come to my mind immediately; one is that the Greyhawk Wars are in many ways; a combo of different wars....not necessarily a "world war" in the sense of there being 2 distinct, opposed sides.

    You have the Furyondy/Veluna/Shield Lands/etc. vs. Iuz war....

    You have the Tenh vs. Fists & Barbaraians (manipulated by Iuz) war; which quickly brings in others including the Urnst states, the Pale, etc.

    You have the Great Kingdom vs. Nyrond, Almor, etc. war; which breaks down into a Civil War

    You have the Scarlet Brotherhood vs. Sea Princes, Irongate, Sundi, etc. war

    You have the Pomarj forces vs. the Wild Coast cities; Celene, the Uleks, etc.

    You have Ket vs. Bissel, Veluna, Gran March

    You have Geoff, Sterich, Keoland vs. the "Giants"

    Etc., etc.

    Many of these are regional wars with little to do with the other regions other than taking advantage of a nation perhaps being focused on a different region.

    Another point that comes to my mind is that if you stick to the "Cannon" timeline which ends in 591 (as referenced in "Greyhawk, the Adventure Begins"); there are "Second" Wars in several of these regions...

    Furyondy/Veluna go back to war against Iuz in 586-587 and recapture Crockport and much of the Furyondy territory lost in the "first" war; in addition; the Shield Landers manage to get a small "foothold" liberated.

    Also; parts of Geoff are taken back from the "Giants"...

    Some of the Scarlet Brotherhood holdings are lost....

    Etc., etc.

    If you want to go for a massive region exploding back into conflcit; then as others have said; the former Great Kingdom is a good place to start. I also think the Pomarj and/or Bright Desert areas are good fodder for this kind of thing.....Perhaps the various Demi-humans nations around the Wild Coast/Pomarj are suddenly hit by a much-larger-than-expected army of Turrosh Mak's; or perhaps Rary and Robilar make an unexpected strike into Urnst thru some passes in the Albor Alz....

    Anyway, just some thoughts....let us know what you end up going with!
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am  

    Flint wrote:
    PaulN6 wrote:
    Kings' courts will always have magicians, often very powerful ones and those magicians will have apprentices who will be charged with scrying, spying, and using summoned beasties to carry messages.


    Without wanting to threadjack, I've always been quite taken by this idea but have never managed to find a way to implement it narratively while maintaining game balance, particularly in 4E.

    One thought I have been toying with recently (mostly inspired by the George RR Martin books that am reading) is making rituals less magical and more mysterious. An example would be mastering a sending or animal messenger type ritual grants you access to message carrying birds or small animals in a similar way to the Maesters of Westeros. Similar handwaving could be done with healing magic and even the raise dead ritual (your almost dead friend will die in a number of days equal to their level unless you get them to a knowledgeable priest with access to the right healing poultices etc.).


    I agree. I'm a great fan of GRR Martin style magic or Conan style magic and it has been a real challenge to hold onto that as each edition treats magic as more commonplace.

    In 4E it can be a lot easier though. Although the game is designed for flexibility so that no group need be without rituals, you can still limit access to rituals to all but the wizard class (who gain rituals regularly as part of a class feature) and you can just increase the cost of buying them and/or increase the amount of time it takes to learn them. Ordinarily you can learn rituals equal to your level but you could limit this to Level-2 or something. You can also require the expenditure of a healing surge every time a ritual is cast (in addition to any rituals that require a surges normally) which can lead to rituals having a bad rep (since you have to shed blood and can sacrifice people to obtain their surges). I've limited raise dead and similar rituals to priests of death gods (Wee Jas and Nerull) but Wee Jas doesn't release spirits so willingly, leading to quests, sacrificing magic items etc. Nerull requires a life in exchange (leading to moral dilemmas). Every person brought back from the dead also bears a mark singling them out to the general populace as someone to be feared.

    On the war front, if the members of wizard guilds are indeed international with many of the same members in different guilds located in different countries this can add an interesting dimension to a world war. Rary was a Ketite with links in Greyhawk and he betrayed his allies. How would Syrloch mages in Gran March view a member of the guild who had Ketite ancestry? Native wizards might be drafted by their governments and pitted against friends and loved ones who have similarly been drafted in their own native lands.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2701
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:29 am  

    PaulN6 wrote:
    Native wizards might be drafted by their governments and pitted against friends and loved ones who have similarly been drafted in their own native lands.


    Same thing happens in the real world every four years in the World Cup. Razz

    SirXaris
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:31 am  

    True and that also ends with death threats, recriminations, and rioting on the streets! Shocked
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 222
    From: Modena, Italy

    Send private message
    Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:31 am  

    First of all thank you for sharing your thought and give me some food for it as well.

    I think I will run a cross of three different invasion themes that stem up from an undead uprising in Perrenland. An old stave church built upon an ancient place of worship of Nerull collapses, freeing dozens of demodands which dwelt there in liquefied form. Also a zombie plague explodes, quickly infecting the whole nation, zombies will bite and claw through fields and farms and villages pushing the flans up in the mountains where they can better defend from the zombies. Undead, under the rule of a powerful priests of Nerull, are also walking on the icy surface of the lake towards the territories of the wolf and tiger nomads. Wolf nomads strongly rely on Illusion magic in my campaign so they found themselves unprepared for the walking dead invasion. At the same time Tangg is killed in a challenge, but the slayer is killed in turn by one of Tangg's son, a powerful nomad who is now challenging the Tiger Nomad's Kahn, if he wins, the nomads will be again a whole tribe. Tangg's son is also sending gifts and messengers in the plains of the Payinims (not sure if it's technically correct, are they of similar ancestry and could unite in a horde?) and Ull to form a single, unstoppable horde. The horde will not just try to pour through Ket but also try to wrestle the Howling Hills back. If Tangg's son succeeds, he would gain great influence among the nomad tribes.
    Also: Ket is considering attacking Krestible, since Perrenland is almost helpless, as soon as the winter ends. Bissel is on the verge of a civil war and might try to struggle free from Ket, Gran March etc. The Vesve has been almost conquered by Iuz, the beastmen slaughtered, and Highfolk is almost doomed as well. Iuz on the other hand is suffering from severe food shortage, as the orcs continue to breed, and out of desperation he might toss a hungry, fearless horde of starving orcs into Nyrond.
    From a third perspective, elemental magic is getting unreliable, as an Elemental War is being fought in the "planes beyond", between the evil elemental gods like Imix etc., and possibly the Slaadi race. Some of the war is going to be fought on Oerth, maybe inolving Tharizdun, or the Vaati. Not sure yet how to develop it, in any case, elementals are leaving our lands, and gnomes enclaves are suffering from lack of protection of their earth elementals.
    Having the Great Kingdom wake is a great idea, actually, I will certainly develop it as well. Maybe some lands at the end of the power struggle betweek the kingdoms will have to accept its protection against some more otherworldly evil...
    I am not using the drows in any case. In my campaign drows are completely unheard of. Some sort of evil, arcane, distant evil race, more similar to dark demons or evil fey, than a humanoid race. But I like them to be shrouded in mistery and shame, a secret hidden by all elves of Oerth to all. In any case, save for the GDQ affair drows have never been seen on oerth in centuries. "Good" elves made sure nobody even talked about the evil race.

    The thoughts on communication are interesting too. I am assuming a great load of spies are being used by every faction, some of them mages or priests with teleport or word of recall. I will definitely try to limit the use of such spells however, and the idea of making them into rituals is intriguing.

    Magic is a known reality in my GH, but also quite rare. Yet, certainly all wealthy nobles or armies make use of them, but they're basically all below 5th level. Wizards above 10th level are extremely rare, the ones above 18 are just a dozen or so in the whole world (in other words, only those officially published - no new archmages in my campaign beyond those "canon").

    As a side note, Drelzna too is going to have a role. She found a way to command Tsojcanth, an old flan cleric/magic-user demi-lich under her command. That's not going to be pretty...

    AND... the Acquaria idea is brilliant!!! I shall re-read a bit more about it but Radoc sounds like a nasty conqueror...
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:08 am  

    Flint wrote:
    Similar handwaving could be done with healing magic and even the raise dead ritual (your almost dead friend will die in a number of days equal to their level unless you get them to a knowledgeable priest with access to the right healing poultices etc.)


    That's a simple but brilliant solution to the narrative problem I've always had with raise dead. For example - "Even with the magical healing available to you, the wound is too grievous and it is apparent that Hardek will soon die if he doesn't receive the attention of a more powerful healer soon." Thanks! Happy
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.49 Seconds