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    Canonfire :: View topic - Two great tastes that taste great together
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- D&D 3.0e/3.5e/d20/Pathfinder
    Two great tastes that taste great together
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 18, 2010
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    Tue May 08, 2012 7:32 am  
    Two great tastes that taste great together

    For a long time I've pondered how best to use Pathfinder APs and adventures. The main question for me was whether to keep Golarion and Oerth separate, or blend them somehow. I didn't long entertain the notion of having Avistan and Oerik on the same planet, mostly because I already had things in place for the rest of Oerth, and also because Golarion has some very particular history (Starfall, Aroden's death, etc.) that would make it difficult to share space with Oerth as we know it. I like Golarion's flavor, and thought seriously about leaving Oerth behind for this new world, which clearly has a lot in common with Greyhawk. In the end, however, I've decided to go in a different direction. I plan to import as much as possible of PF's stuff directly into Greyhawk, using it to fill out geography, history, and of course adventures. Not all of it will work; Second Darkness, for example, just won't fit my campaign outside the first adventure (Riddleport is a lot of fun).

    So I'm hoping in this thread we can post ideas for placement of PF adventures and settings in the world of Greyhawk (I didn't see any other clearly purposed thread in the forum).

    My first example: I'm planning to use vast amounts of Garund, especially the Mwangi Expanse, to fill out Hepmonaland. I don't own the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement, and don't have much allegiance to its contents, so this becomes really easy for me to do. Instantly I get terrific material to turn an unknown jungle continent into a vibrant site for adventures. Sargava becomes a lost colony of Aerdy that rebelled when the house of Naelax took the throne, Savith was a hero of old Suel, etc. I'll probably even build in the Eye of Abendego, because I love the idea of a giant stationary hurricane. Obviously I'll need to change its history and reason, but that's not too difficult.

    So what are your other adaptations/conversions of PF material directly into Greyhawk? I'll put my other notions in later posts...
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
    Posts: 833
    From: Houston Texas

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    Tue May 08, 2012 1:31 pm  
    Re: Two great tastes that taste great together

    Chevalier wrote:
    For a long time I've pondered how best to use Pathfinder APs and adventures. The main question for me was whether to keep Golarion and Oerth separate, or blend them somehow.

    I too enjoy alt settings yet have been (still am) reluctant to "blend" them. The solution within my own campaign was to let those worlds be there own...You can still "blend adventure" in either and maintain cohesive separation by simply having Oerth remain Oerth, and allow Golaron (in this case) to be part of the same celestial solar system. With the utilization of gates, and plane shifting you can "connect" the two and still maintain their own "lore" so to speak... There is precedence for this with the use of Luna and Celene (Oerth's moons) in several canon GH sources (see RTo8 for example). Or with Planes of existence (ieRavenloft, City of Brass, etc.).
    Even EGGygax acknowledged that there were "multiple Oerths" who is to say the sages of Oerth may call that distant star one thing, and its inhabitants call it Golaron?
    I have leaned in this direction of application, yet avoid the SF applications that SpellJammer would bring to the table (ie space faring ships)... but that's just personal preference.
    IMC, I utilized the Gas Giant planet of Edill to give home to many dragon species,Aarakocra (In the GH setting, they have been encountered in the Rakers, Corrusk, Griff, Lortmil, and Yatil Mountains),and to many "narnia-esk types of talking animals. My Edill has no human, demi human or humanoids save those that "gate" in so Common does not exist and thus leads to some entertaining roleplay. With no determinable seas or oceans flight becomes a preferred mode of transportation from continent to continent, since the "continents float about in orbits of their own (think Avatar)

    Here is an interesting link to an article dealing with gates in greyhawk by Roger E. Moore-( www.greyhawkonline.com/canonfire/WoGgates.rtf ) It gives alot of background GH ties and then you can decide how much is SJ influence and how much you can leave to plausible explanation as "other worldly and / or Planes" based on your own campaign and tastes.
    SJR6 Spelljammer Greyspace is a good jumping of source for geographical info for "other worlds".
    I realize this doesn't "directly" relate to you thread as an answer, but it may provide you an entertaining alternative with less, reconstruction of GH or your source materials.
    my 2cp
    and back to the Shadows
    DLG
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    Tue May 08, 2012 4:43 pm  

    Great points, DLG. This is something I considered, and it could certainly work for many people who wanted to use the Pathfinder adventures without moving them off-world. They've already included interplanetary gates within the planet's own system, so a portal to Oerth wouldn't be that outrageous; also, the Witchwar Legacy module actually proposes
    SPOILER










    (without naming names) that Iggwilv came from Irrisen originally, was banished by Baba Yaga for being too ambitious, and so embarked on her cross-planar adventures. And I may still use gates, plane-to-plane travel, or alternate Oerth for things that just don't easily fit onto Oerth. What finally sold me on wholesale importing was that so much of it fits GH flavor - again, not surprising given these are the people who did so well with Greyhawk in the latter years of Dragon and Dungeon. Often all that needs changing are the names, and everything else falls into place.

    By the way, I like what you've done with Edill. I agree about keeping Spelljammer stuff clear if possible. I like aspects of spelljamming, but if I want to run a space travel game, I'd rather it be straight scifi. (But I still like Barrier Peaks!)
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
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    Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:47 am  

    Nice thread Chevalier. I think your ideas on Garund, the Mwangi Expanse, Sargava, etc. make sense. If you get the opportunity to obtain The Scarlet Brotherhood, I recommend it, as you'll have fun incorporating / blending these different sources to make your Alternate Oerth.

    I started collecting Pathfinder books in 2010 and so am only familiar with recent products. That said, I think the Council of Thieves Adventure Path could be placed easily in the Great Kingdom. Really, any ocean port city would work, as much Cheliax material can be incorporated into Aerdy.

    The Kingmaker AP seems easily adaptable to the Bandit Kingdoms. Carrion Crown seems to resonate with Geoff, Sterich and the Yeomanry and perhaps even southern Keoland.

    Skull & Shackles could be adapted to the sea between the Amedio Jungle and Hepmonaland, the Vohoun Ocean, iirc. The Eye of Abendego could fit in there well -- perhaps covering some islands where cloud dragons are rumored to live (from tSB).

    These are just some initial thoughts. Look forward to hearing more about your adventures in PathHawk!
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:10 pm  

    Thanks MTG! I agree on Council of Thieves - Cheliax transfers to the Great Kingdom nicely. Easy to sketch out the Hellknights as a branch of Hextor's church...or to have the Naelax infernal contract mirror that of Thrune. I like Rel Astra as the site for Westcrown - port city, former capital...maybe set it just before Drax takes power.

    On Carrion Crown - I've sketched out using Urnst for Ustalav. I think I'll make that an article here someday, since it dramatically influenced and altered my campaign's ancient history. I can definitely see Geoff/Sterich/Keoland working, too, though.

    I totally agree on Skull and Shackles! Between this and Dungeon Magazine's old Savage Tide stuff, the south seas of Greyhawk should be very lively for me. Though of course I need to steal/adapt Mortellan's map...
    CF Admin

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    Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:42 pm  

    I'm reviewing parts of Ivid the Undying and think that it would be fun to incorporate aspects of Cheliax into Aerdy. I'll definitely take a look at Rel Astra with your suggestion in mind.

    For your Ustalav work, I imagine you're thinking of the Duchy of Urnst and the Cairn Hills, which seems to implicate Maure Castle, no?

    And, I totally agree that the Pearl Sea / Vohoun Ocean times the Savage Tide / Isle of Dread could make for a great campaign.

    Please let us know where you decide to focus and how it comes out. I intend to write up some of my old North Province plotlines and NPC characters to share here.

    'Ware and were, friend.
    CF Admin

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    Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:33 pm  

    Reflecting on it more, I think the Ustalav-based modules and Adventure Path might be neat to place in Tenh or Ratik too.

    What do you think?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 18, 2010
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    Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:06 am  

    I think Ratik could work well; it has all some diverse geography, it's fairly remote, and has a conquering race (Oeridians) and an underclass. Tenh, though, has no coast, so Wake of the Watcher would be tricky.

    The Duchy of Urnst, yes...you certainly could involve Maure Castle in some way there. The Maure may have settled there in hopes of finding lost artifacts of the Tyrant.

    Another 3PP adventure I've placed in the Flanaess is the Grey Citadel, from Necromancer. The city of Dun Eamon is perched at the point where the Velverdyva passes out of the Yatils - I figure a picturesque waterfall is a good thing to have there.
    CF Admin

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    Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:52 am  

    I enjoyed reading the Grey Citadel quite a lot but have not run it. I was thinking of Ratik, iirc, to place it, but I like your imagery around the falls of the Velverdyva.

    I've just started reading the latest Adventure Path and hence have been thinking of where to place Magnimar. Do you have any ideas for it? I think along the Azure Sea, thinking Blue and the Wild Coast not right, wondering about Hardby, and then thinking of cities in former Almor and South Province. What do you think?
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