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    Canonfire :: View topic - Spell Costs
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Spell Costs
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2440
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm  
    Spell Costs

    Another one of many Lanthorn questions:

    According to the 1e DMG, spells cost about 300 gp per level.

    Thereafter, in any and all 2e materials, I could NOT find anywhere a mention as to the cost of spells. SURELY, SOMEWHERE there is mention how much it would cost to purchase a spell!!!

    HELP!

    -Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3776
    From: So. Cal

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    Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:18 am  

    I haven't been able to find anything. Use the 1E amount per level, and feel free to get creative in way of requiring a service/rare item of some kind in payment as well. Wizards/guilds usually won't necessarily sell spells without getting something useful in return (if they even have the spells the PC wants). For example, "We'll sell you the spells for that much money, but you need to get us three pints of remorhaz blood too.", or "We''ll sell you the spells for that much money, but you will also need to brew some potions/scribe some scrolls for us." PCs aren't exactly buying apples at the market here. Stick it to them, if they are given such a fee choice of what they can get. Money isn't power. Knowledge is power, and it will cost you. Evil Grin Wink
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:52 am  

    If you weren't able to find anything, Ceb, at least I know that I'm not blind. Cool I perused the following books, all to no avail on this question: 2e DMG, Complete Book of Wizards, Spells & Magic, Tome of Magic. I think that Unearthed Arcana talks about SPELL BOOK costs, but nothing on actual spell costs themselves. 300 gp per lvl seems awfully steep to me, personally. My campaigns aren't exactly dolling out gold and gems by the armload, and neither are the campaigns in which I play.

    I appreciate the help. If anyone finds anything mentioned in print, PLEASE let me know.

    thanks!

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 12, 2014
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    From: Maryland, USA

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    Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:05 pm  

    2nd Edition decided not to price most magic, as it really isn't a common enough commodity to really work with standard pricing structures, and they felt it should be dependent on how a DM runs his campaign. In general, I don't think wizards would actually sell spells very often. More likely they'd make their spellbooks available to allies (i.e. if there was some sort of guild, college, or association in a city/nation) or make them available as a reward to another wizard for a task of some sort. Spell trading would probably also be pretty common amongst non-antagonistic wizards.

    If you do price them, set something you feel is appropriate for the campaign, and then I'd recommend incorporating the spell rarity listed in the Wizard's Spell Compendium, so uncommon spells might be double your base price, rare spells might be quadruple, and very rare might be ten times more expensive. A lot might depend on how the wizard got the spell (a spell he researched himself might be more expensive, due to his own time and effort).

    Jeff
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:21 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    If you weren't able to find anything, Ceb, at least I know that I'm not blind. Cool I perused the following books, all to no avail on this question: 2e DMG, Complete Book of Wizards, Spells & Magic, Tome of Magic. I think that Unearthed Arcana talks about SPELL BOOK costs, but nothing on actual spell costs themselves. 300 gp per lvl seems awfully steep to me, personally. My campaigns aren't exactly dolling out gold and gems by the armload, and neither are the campaigns in which I play.


    PCs can always sell magic items and acquired mundane gear, perform services, etc. to drum up some extra gold. Spells are expensive, but they are also potentially game altering in a way which other acquired abilities are not, so spells are worth the high price tag.

    Some DMs require training to level up, others not. For those that do require training, which I did most of the time, spell acquisition was included in the training. One spell was gained if the character trained, though what spell that could be was dependent upon what spells the trainer had to offer (or was willing to offer) the trainee. Some spells were more rare than others (as per AuldDragon's recommendation), so you might not always get what you wanted, but at least you would get something. Added to scrolls and spell books acquired from adventuring (which can be sold for gold used to acquire more spells!!!), wizards were not really suffering for spells. Every now and then, the wizards might only have one spell of a new spell level, but not too often (or for very long).

    We eventually did away with *required* training for leveling up because the PCs increasingly found themselves in out-of-the-way places, but we did still leave training in as a game feature. Though no longer required, paying the money (and spending the time) for training had some benefits. If you did pay the money for training, wizards would get one new spell (potentially limited in choice) as part of their training. Other classes gained greater access to acquiring new proficiencies (specifically non-weapon proficiencies which often required being taught to do something; people don't exactly just spontaneously manifest new knowledge most of the time, right? Wink) and better access to special (but mundane) equipment. Also, all PCs who trained received new hit points equal to a minimum of one above half or more. For example, if a fighter rolled a d10 for new hit points and rolled a 3, the roll would count as a 6 instead, and a roll of 6 or more would stand as is. So, for wizards who trained, they would not only get one new spell of some kind, but would also end up with a minimum of 3 gained hit points. Training is expensive though (19- Wis score in weeks, at a cost of 100 gp per level to be gained *per week*, subject to a Int/Wis check for success; don't succeed, spend another week and more money, then recheck). Shocked Yep, it could get expensive, but everyone felt it was worth it.

    Anyways, went off on a little bit of tangent there, but it goes to how we put a tiny bit extra into the game with regard to spell acquisition for wizards. We never had any issue with spell acquisition.
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:52 pm  

    Wizard Guilds, at least in my campaign, are the places were components, spells, magic items, and various opportunities (research, employment, etc.) can be bought, sold, and/or made. This is, of course, based on the size of the Guild and its membership. Only the largest of Guilds have the facilities and staffing to create, sell, and trade the plethora of items listed in the DMG, but spells and components could be the primary revenue source, not to mention the creation of spell books. Hence, the reason for my question in the first place, and perhaps why 1e DMG even mentioned spell costs. I am merely befuddled why it was dropped in 2e materials at all.

    thanks everyone,

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 12, 2014
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    Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:36 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    I am merely befuddled why it was dropped in 2e materials at all.


    Basically because the amount of treasure in campaigns vary tremendously from campaign to campaign, and the purchase of high-ticket items are one of the primary DM tools on controlling treasure once it has been given out. Setting a price makes the tool harder to use for some DMs (and can give players the feeling that they have a "right" to purchase spells).

    Jeff
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