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    Canonfire :: View topic - Stone Shape (for excavation)
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Stone Shape (for excavation)
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2440
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:08 pm  
    Stone Shape (for excavation)

    Another situation has come up and I would like some input. It really doesn't matter if this pertains to the 5th lvl wizard or 3rd lvl priest spell. They are pretty much the same in what they can do except for the area of effect.

    According to both descriptions, the spell allows the caster to modify an existing piece of stone to suit his purposes. I am wondering if it is within bounds (it doesn't say specifically you can't so...) to use Stone Shape to carve out a tunnel or cave from a mountainside, for instance, so long as you adhere to the parameters of the area of effect.

    Yes, I know that the 2nd lvl priest spell "Soften Earth and Stone" and 5th lvl mage spell "Passwall" are more appropriate for this use, but wondering if a caster can use Stone Shape to create a cave or tunnel.

    For instance, say the caster can affect 14 square feet of stone. Could that caster open up the side of a mountain (or any stone/rock face) and carve out an opening, perhaps by 'digging' in 7 feet and then 'pulling' out the stone (it has to go somewhere, after all!) into a shelf or walls, for example?

    As I said, perhaps not the main focus of the spell, but the description doesn't specify you can't, so thinking this is more of a 'clever' (desperate?) use of magic than something unbalancing. And you couldn't really do it more than once in this manner, digging in deeper and deeper, because you have to put that excavated rock/stone somewhere!

    Thoughts?

    Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2532
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:04 pm  

    I have no problem with that use of the spell, at all. IIRC, it has a limited duration, right? So, you can't build permanent structures with it, including tunnels.

    SirXaris
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3776
    From: So. Cal

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    Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:17 pm  

    Sounds fine to me, but at 1 cubic foot/level per casting, it will take a lot of time and castings to "dig" any sort of sizeable tunnel or cave. PCs with a lot of downtime will be tenacious though. Laughing

    On a related note, transmute rock to mud works well for digging through solid stone, but it has other uses. There are some places in my campaign with structures that were built using methods similar to those used in building modern concrete structures.

    Step One: build wooden form to suit needs.
    Step Two: fill it with rocks and cast transmute rock to mud; top off with more rocks (i.e aggregate).
    Step Three: cast dispel magic to then create a solid rock form (wall, pillar, etc.)
    Step Four (optional): cast stone shape to smooth surface, or add bas-relief designs/art.

    NEVER do the reverse and fill the form with mud and then cast transmute mud to rock, as then a simple dispel magic spell will cause the structure to revert to mud and collapse! Shocked
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 505
    From: London, England

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    Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:39 am  

    My reading of the spell, based on the fact that it is alteration magic is that it doesn't 'delete' stone, it shifts the existing volume into a new shape. You could use it to create a tunnel but you would need to displace the stone elsewhere (piling it up around the entrance of the tunnel for example).

    Additionally, any kind of large structure, like a building, or tunnel forming would need some knowledge of engineering or another applicable proficiency. To try to create a long tunnel or perhaps a bridge without the proper knowledge may result in a collapse at some point.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:47 am  

    ^

    That too! Happy
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2440
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:47 pm  

    Ceb,

    Clever use of Rock to Mud...but is it possible to Dispel the Dispel and revert the rock back to mud dispelled back to rock then re-dispelled to change BACK to mud once more? < Did that even make any sense whatsoever...?>

    Shocked

    Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:41 pm  

    Dispelling a dispel magic spell after the fact would be like dispelling a fireball after the fact. Hey look! You're not all dead because I just un-fireballed you with a dispel magic spell six seconds after you died. Yay! Laughing

    So, no. Dispel magic dispels *active* magic. Dispel magic is an instantaneous effect, just like fireball, and cannot be dispelled after the fact. In the example I gave, the only recourse is to cast transmute rock to mud to destroy the structure. As this spell is relatively accessible to accomplished individuals, most prominent stone structures end up being proofed against such magic, which would includes stone shape, soften stone, etc.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2440
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat May 02, 2020 9:25 am  

    Gotcha. Makes sense.

    Thanks everyone for your input! You KNOW I will have more queries to come. Cool

    Lanthorn, Always Asking
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sat May 02, 2020 8:49 pm  

    Questions are always appreciated, for any edition (I've even been brushing up on 4e!!!), because it helps to keep my aging mind active! Laughing
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