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    Canonfire :: View topic - Visions of Greyhawk
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    Visions of Greyhawk
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:12 pm  
    Visions of Greyhawk

    "Time is, said the martlet."


    The Worm Ouroboros


    E.R. Eddison
    ------


    The zine has transitioned to a new online home with a new name and numbering. The next (first under new title) issue will be out on time, in DEC 2023.

    Check out https://thegreygrimoire1.wordpress.com

    Submissions go to thegreygrimoire@gmail.com.

    Gary Holian, formerly consulting editor on the zine, is retaining the name 'Visions of Greyhawk' for his own use in future CF projects.

    You won't see further updates about our zine on this site. For news, check the WordPress Site listed above. You can also see posts about our zine on GHO, at The Piazza UK, and other places where GH fans gather.




    Ewan Cummins EiC The Grey Grimoire


    Last edited by FormerlyKnownasNorker on Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:38 am; edited 12 times in total
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    Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:14 pm  

    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:28 pm  

    This sounds very cool, but I wonder how it is different than the Oerth Journal and the Canonfire! Chronicles?

    SirXaris
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    Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:11 pm  

    Always happy to see more Greyhawk, but it does beg the question above by SirXaris.

    Oerth Journal has a very unpredictable release schedule, sometimes four times a year sometimes once every two years. I'm not having a dig at anyone - everyone has life stuff to deal with.

    I don't even know if Canonfire Chronicles is still a going concern.

    I'm really supportive of a new online magazine, but there isn't that many Greyhawk fans and content creators to share around, so I'm worried about that (not my concern, since I'm not the one starting a new magazine).

    Can anyone share any insight on why the differing magazines? Is there a difference of opinion on some issues and people want to do their own take on things?

    In an ideal world it would seem sounder to direct everyone's energy and resources into one serious magazine rather than three separate ones.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:14 am  

    Oerth Journal is great! I really love the work Kristoph and others have done on it and I look forward to the next issue as much as all GH fans do. It will come out when the publisher is ready. Kristoph in particular deserves credit for being one of my inspirations to start this new zine. As far as numbers of Greyhawkers go, I am certain there are many GH fans online, more than just hang out on CF or GHO, and we can reach more of them with more zines. We will bring in new people with more content out there, too, I'd bet. It's not a zero-sum game.

    -Ewan Cummins

    AKA Norker[/b]
    Sage of Canonfire

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    Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:42 am  

    Hey guys,

    My two cents. The Oerth Journal continues to exist and we should be proud of of it as one of the longest running zines in fandom. But this is more about Canonfire and its new direction.

    I will be relaunching the site soon, with updated forums and using a modern Wordpress installation as a base. That should greatly improve the signup process and the search engine, both of which are functionally broken in many ways. We'll work on ways for people to discover and re-discover all the great content on this site.

    In rethinking the new site, I believe it will be more utilitarian in nature, a shared blog with features such as the maps, downloads, and lore materials. What used to be articles, should now be published in format more suitable to the material, thus the zine. So all the regular articles will now be diverted to Visions of Greyhawk, where they will be edited as before and released on a quick schedule.

    Why the name Visions of Greyhawk? I suggested we choose a name that leaves no doubt what the content is about, targeted for people far and wide who are not just members of Canonfire, but it will be hosted and promoted on CF.

    Canonfire Chronicles will become the umbrella title for all sorts of standalone pdfs and serials that have been and will continue to be produced by the Canonfire Fanbase.

    Excited about the future, as the first volume is already full and we'll prioritize speed over design. It will come out as soon as its ready. We won't sacrifice speed and quality, for design. Let me know if you have any questions.

    -Gary
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    Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:12 am  

    PSmedger wrote:
    Hey guys,

    My two cents. The Oerth Journal continues to exist and we should be proud of of it as one of the longest running zines in fandom. But this is more about Canonfire and its new direction.

    I will be relaunching the site soon, with updated forums and using a modern Wordpress installation as a base. That should greatly improve the signup process and the search engine, both of which are functionally broken in many ways. We'll work on ways for people to discover and re-discover all the great content on this site.

    In rethinking the new site, I believe it will be more utilitarian in nature, a shared blog with features such as the maps, downloads, and lore materials. What used to be articles, should now be published in format more suitable to the material, thus the zine. So all the regular articles will now be diverted to Visions of Greyhawk, where they will be edited as before and released on a quick schedule.

    Why the name Visions of Greyhawk? I suggested we choose a name that leaves no doubt what the content is about, targeted for people far and wide who are not just members of Canonfire, but it will be hosted and promoted on CF.

    Canonfire Chronicles will become the umbrella title for all sorts of standalone pdfs and serials that have been and will continue to be produced by the Canonfire Fanbase.

    Excited about the future, as the first volume is already full and we'll prioritize speed over design. It will come out as soon as its ready. We won't sacrifice speed and quality, for design. Let me know if you have any questions.

    -Gary


    I looked at your PDF, and while I'm intrigued I'm also concerned about what this would mean for stories and fiction fans like me submit.

    I've probably been the steadiest contributor to CF over the last few years, and most of that has been in my fanfiction novels. I have a couple of new chapters in the queue, plus another one I'm going to review. How and when will I be able to submit these kinds of stories? CF's format makes it easy for me to post links to each chapter on Facebook as they're uploaded, but I don't know what it'll look like under this format.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
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    From: on the way to Bellport

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    Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:49 pm  

    Very exciting announcement. Thanks to all who've carried the torch and worked to develop and launch the new website, Visions of Greyhawk, Canonfire Chronicles, and whatever else you have in the works!

    I look forward to continuing the journey with you.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 18, 2005
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    Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:56 am  

    Okay, given the context of the new website (which is great news), I think I understand where you are headed and why. I'd love to contribute some articles and I have a number in draft at the moment.

    This begs a second question: Who do I submit article proposals too - Oerth Journal or Visions of Greyhawk? They both cover the same kind of articles...

    The suggestion is that it is not a zero-sum game - but content submitted to one zine won't get submitted to the other zine - and there doesn't seem to be any discriminator between the two types of content.

    I'm not trying to be difficult - I'm just wanting to contribute.

    I appreciate the efforts of people like Kristoph and the CF crew to keep Greyhawk alive.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:19 am  

    Itís your work. Send it wherever you like.

    I notice you mentioned 'article proposals.' If you mean an email asking if we would be interested in a given article, you do not need to send that. You should just send the article. As noted in the guidelines (in the PDF above), if it is a longer piece, please include a summary and outline. An email header like ''Article about a Hobniz Town" is always helpful.

    If you have an idea and have not yet written the article, and you are uncertain about whether weíll be interested, feel free to send a message. Itís not required.


    Be aware we are casting the net wide: any edition, other games suitable for Greyhawk (one DM active on CF uses HERO), lore heavy, crunchy, closely adhering to TSR/WotC material or widely divergent from it, whatever. We arenít worried about doing themed issues. If you submit something that needs a whole lot of revision or that we just donít feel good about publishing, we will let you know.

    What else?

    You asked about differences between Visions and OJ. It doesnít make sense to me to try to contrast and compare a yet-to-be-published zine with an established one. But there is one difference I can note. OJ uses WotCís FCP. We donít. That matters a lot to some guys, not at all to others.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:03 pm  

    Quote:
    You asked about differences between Visions and OJ. It doesnít make sense to me to try to contrast and compare a yet-to-be-published zine with an established one. But there is one difference I can note. OJ uses WotCís FCP. We donít. That matters a lot to some guys, not at all to others.


    What is 'FCP'?

    I am a new poster here but have been lurking on Canonfire for years. I would like to submit to the new Visions as well. I have 40 years of GMing in Greyhawk and would like to share with the community. Would certainly help any capacity needed.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:41 pm  

    I believe "WotC's FCP" refers to "WotC's Fan Content Policy."
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:04 am  

    FCP is just that, yes.


    Good news: We have added an assistant editor and we have an artist and cartographer ready to contribute work.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:21 pm  

    ....

    Last edited by FormerlyKnownasNorker on Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:42 pm  

    FormerlyKnownasNorker wrote:
    But there is one difference I can note. OJ uses WotCís FCP. We donít.


    Um. Exactly what does this mean?

    And by "exactly", I'm asking for specific examples or areas of the Fan Content Policy that you intend to not abide by.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:29 am  

    Nellisir,

    FCP isn't the law. It's a corporate policy.

    "Fair use" is the relevant legal concept. So long as no one infringes on copyright, lays false claim to ownership of trademarks, etc. a free zine is just fine, like an online forum.

    Wizards FCP 'absolutely' forbids anyone making 'fan content' to publish anything with 'racism' in it. I had at first assumed they meant actual racism in the real world.
    But half-elves and half-orcs have been declared 'inherently racist' by Jeremy Crawford. I strongly disagree with his opinion, and I will happily publish articles featuring those races. It's clear now what WotC means by no 'racism' in the fantasy world.
    Strict adherence to the FCP would require no one to ever mention half-elves again.
    We also couldn't publish an adventure in which orcs and dwarves are fighting a blood feud in a dungeon complex, because that would be 'racism.'


    Wizards also doesn't want anyone to ever post anything online that touches on their IP in any way but uses other game systems, be those free or commercial. That would mean we could never publish an article with stats for Pathfinder, OSR stuff, or anything else.
    They can ask that, but the request isn't a law. Fair use protects us.


    Do we intend to publish scathing editorial attacks on Wizards? Nope.
    Will we ever claim to own IP or trademarks that belong to the company? Nope. Mimic their trade dress? Nope. Swipe their artwork? Nope.

    Visions of Greyhawk is free, independent, noncommercial, and not affiliated with WotC.


    I hope that answers your question.


    -Norker
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    Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:24 pm  

    I am not working on the project, but I am contributing.

    I would not, and never will, do anything under the FCP, and for a specific reason above and beyond what Norker mentioned.

    Further, anyone who had any complaints about the OGL fiasco at the beginning of the year, specifically with the part which allowed WotC to use materials published under it without any compensation, should also not want to have anything to do with the FCP.

    Why?

    Because it explicitly allows for the exact same thing. Right there in the very first requirement that FCP material must be free, the third bullet point.

    "Your Fan Content must be free for others (including Wizards) to view, access, share, and use without paying you anything, obtaining your approval, or giving you credit."

    Go ahead, read that.
    Read it again.
    Read it a third time.

    Never mind the "others", which is mighty nice of Wizards giving my stuff away to everyone who might not be able to make money off it, Wizards itself can use it without paying me, asking me AND receiving my permission, or even crediting me in any way.
    They get to yoink it outright, publish it without even mild rephrasing, with someone else's name on it. For money.

    That is the main poison pill that killed the OGL.
    I have no interest in taking one for myself.
    YMMV
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:03 pm  

    Yeah, there's that, too.
    CF Admin

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    Sun May 14, 2023 1:35 pm  

    Any updates?

    Allan.
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    Mon May 15, 2023 8:36 am  

    We have received enough submissions for two issues.
    I'd love to get more art, but that may come later.
    We are on track for a late springtime/early summer release.

    -Ewan
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    Fri May 19, 2023 7:54 am  

    Can't wait to see the first issue, especially that Port Toli article! Also, once I see it, I'll be better positioned to contribute submissions.

    Behind the scenes, I'm dialoguing with Mortellan about my Hold of the Sea Princes campaign materials, some of which derive from his amazing "Unconquered Hold of the Sea Princes" article in Oerth Journal #32.

    In particular, we're discussing my overview of Poniard on Flotsom Island, the lineage of Poniard's counts, and various NPCs therein, including members of the Scarlet Brotherhood who have infiltrated and mean to overthrow or subvert them (in a pre- or during the "Greyhawk Wars" timeframe). Also, I've developed a community of "maroons" in a cloud forest ruin in the interior of Fairwind Island; several coastal castles, keeps, lighthouses, manors, villas, and villages, including "Port Blackwell"; various locations and NPCs in Monmurg; elaborations on Mortellan's Seolder nobles; and much moreóall of which I very much look forward to sharing with the online Greyhawk community.
    CF Admin

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    Fri May 19, 2023 8:32 pm  

    These all sound great, Marc, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work :D

    Carlos Lising did some work in the greater Sea Princes environs as part of his module series with Jay Scott at https://www.caslentertainment.com/product/js1-horror-in-the-huuls/139?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=3 and also as part of his revisitation to UK1 Beyond the Crystal Cave via his adventure "Somewhere I Have Never Travelled"---a download from one of the first one or two fan seminars at GaryCon.

    Allan.
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    Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:29 am  

    CSL,

    You are not probably, you are definitely CF's biggest and steadiest contributor without a doubt.

    I want to find ways to better show off your material, especially the fiction which is highly serialized. I think we might format the new CF to better highlight the material through authors, rather than topics.

    I don't think the new zine would work for you, since as a quarterly, it would take forever to get your stories told (unless you greatly increase the size of the entries, by combining segments.)

    I think we should enhance access to the whole story, find a way to make it a special feature. I will present you some options to see what you think.

    -Gary
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    Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am  

    The zine has transitioned to a new online home with a new name and numbering. The next (first under new title) issue will be out on time, in DEC 2023.

    Check out https://thegreygrimoire1.wordpress.com/

    Submissions go to thegreygrimoire@gmail.com.

    Gary Holian, formerly consulting editor on the zine, is retaining the name 'Visions of Greyhawk' for his own use in future CF projects.

    You won't see further updates about our zine on this site. For news, check the WordPress Site listed above. You can also see posts about our zine on GHO, at The Piazza UK, and other places where GH fans gather.
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