Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Question about Sulm and Bright Desert
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Question about Sulm and Bright Desert
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 10, 2005
    Posts: 12


    Send private message
    Thu May 12, 2005 1:13 pm  
    Question about Sulm and Bright Desert

    I came across a very interesting Living Greyhawk campaign based in the Bright Desert region involving the Rary the Traitor:

    www.ekbir.org/actu/BlightonBrightSand_v1.0.pdf

    As I was reading it though it seemed to say that the Bright Desert was created by the mad wizard Shattados when he called down the powers of Tharizdun.

    But elsewhere I have read that the Bright Desert was created in -1566 CY when Vecna destroyed an elven army from Celene, also by calling on the power of Tharizdun, and that Sulm wasn't established until -1034 CY, more than 500 years later.

    I had always liked the Vecna, Bright Desert connection. Anyone know what's official cannon here?

    -ando
    Sage of Canonfire

    Joined: Jun 28, 2001
    Posts: 158


    Send private message
    Thu May 12, 2005 1:35 pm  

    The former is closer to the "truth" than the latter.

    The Vecna-connection is from an old online project called the Oerth Journal volume 1. That first issue contained a timeline that was part old lore (from original designers such as Len Lakofka) and part personal contributions from Steven "Tamerlain" Wilson's campaign. Its not generally considered canon, though there are some good ideas in it.

    The Shattados-Tharizdun connection is drawn from the sourcebook-module, Rary the Traitor and is the direction any "future" work in that area is likely to take.

    -Gary
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 10, 2005
    Posts: 12


    Send private message
    Thu May 12, 2005 2:08 pm  

    Thanks for the clairficiation, Gary! Happy

    Unfortunately, that means I've internalized a lot of non-canon stuff. Sad Any place I should look for some (detailed) Canon timelines?
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2004
    Posts: 666


    Send private message
    Thu May 12, 2005 7:36 pm  

    There is a link here on canonfire to the GreyChronodex, which is basically a listing of canon references to events (often contradictory). Link should show in the left hand menus on your screen under "special features".
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Fri May 13, 2005 3:56 am  

    There's no reason why u can't use both timelines though. Many historians use supposition so the Vecna version can always be used as a red herring for pcs that only a great sage like Arkalan, the wizardess Shemaya (can't recall exact name - Tower of Sleep?), Rary, or even Robilar would be able to disprove.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 19, 2003
    Posts: 116
    From: New York City

    Send private message
    Fri May 13, 2005 7:17 am  

    OR, you can just go with the Vecna thing. It's good to be aware of canon, but there's no reason to be married to it. Especially if you've already steered your campaign in another direction.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 10, 2005
    Posts: 12


    Send private message
    Fri May 13, 2005 11:58 am  

    Thanks everyone for your input. It really helps.


    I guess the reason I had liked the Vecna explination is that is solved several problems all at once.

    1) it gave a timeline to Vecna's rise, empire, wars with the elves, and subsequent death at hands of Kas.

    2) creating the Bright Desert strikes me as being on par with the Twin Cataclysms in terms of how much power it would have required. I find it easy to associate that kind of power with Vecna, less so with Shattados (who seems more on par with Keraptis).

    3) it also gave a tidy explination for why the Oerids were able to easily turn asside the Flanae when they began to migrate into the lands of the central and eastern Flanaess (because the Flan had already been thoroughly depopulated by their war with the elves).

    4) it also gave an explination to why the Ur-Flanae where in the northlands above Aerdy (that is where Vecna fought his last great battles against the the elven king Galitholian).


    ....All that said I'll try to get my head wrapped around the Sulm stuff and see if I can't reconcile it with my (now only presumed) understanding of when Vecna lived.

    Even by the time lines that I have with Vecna, Sulm came some years afterward, so there isn't necessarily a conflict.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 15, 2002
    Posts: 165
    From: Seattle

    Send private message
    Sat May 14, 2005 6:59 pm  

    Quote:
    1) it gave a timeline to Vecna's rise, empire, wars with the elves, and subsequent death at hands of Kas.


    Ah, but why solve one of the most-disputed pieces of Greyhawk lore? Where's the fun in that? Wink

    Quote:
    2) creating the Bright Desert strikes me as being on par with the Twin Cataclysms in terms of how much power it would have required. I find it easy to associate that kind of power with Vecna, less so with Shattados (who seems more on par with Keraptis).


    Well, I think you've got canon a bit wrong here. Ignore canon or go with it as you see fit, but just FYI on how this story supposedly goes, Shattados didn't do this by his own power...

    "Shattados' wish was granted, but in a way that both he and the Sulm people would soon regret. A crown appeared...eagerly Shattados donned it, expecting it to simply bend others to his will. It did far more. The gods of evil are possessed of a perverse sense of humor, and Shattados was about to be the victim of an unpleasant practical joke...transformed into a monstrous scorpion...In less than a day, the kingdom of Sulm ceased to exist, and perhaps, far away, in an isolated corner of an evil plane, dark laughter echoed."

    And just to confirm that it's the Scorpion Crown that's responsible for it, later in Rary the Traitor it reads:

    "The Bright Desert can still be saved from the scourge of Sulm's descendants. If the crown is eliminated, all manscorpions and monarch scorpions are immediately destroyed, and the Bright Desert slowly begins to revert to a resonably fertile, if somewhat arid, region. These changes will take place over a century or more..."

    Quote:
    4) it also gave an explination to why the Ur-Flanae where in the northlands above Aerdy (that is where Vecna fought his last great battles against the the elven king Galitholian).


    There's really nothing I'm aware of in canon that spells out olven interaction with Vecna (or, for that matter, nothing I know of spells out a lack of interaction, either). I believe all we really know for sure is that he ruled the Flannae in times past. This is a discussion as old as Greytalk, so if you feel confused then welcome to the club.

    But as others have suggested, you should use whatever works best for your campaign. Nearly everything regarding Vecna is contradictory anyway, so you could just embrace the Chaos and stick with what you've already got. But I agree with Vormaerin, you should give the GreyChronodex a looksee for ideas if nothing else.
    _________________
    ~basiliv

    I didn't design the world,
    I merely facilitated its creation
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jan 09, 2004
    Posts: 404
    From: Stansbury Park, Utah

    Send private message
    Sun May 15, 2005 9:02 am  
    Blight on Bright Sands

    ando_tane wrote:
    I came across a very interesting Living Greyhawk campaign based in the Bright Desert region involving the Rary the Traitor...


    The Living Greyhawk campaign does have a story arc regarding Rary and the Bright Desert. It is a Core arc, meaning the Living Greyhawk Circle is managing the story. The arc is called Blight on Bright Sands and is scheduled to span the next two years with eight adventures. The first two adventures are out, COR5-06 Blood on Bright Sands and COR5-09 Gateway to the Bright Sands.

    Here is the story abstract:

    "An archmage's unfathomable machinations and boundless ambition guides the fate of the Central Flanaess. Ebon tendrils of a nation's doom coil down through the millennia awaiting the unwary as conflict wracks the Bright Desert."

    While I don't have an opinion on canon/non-canon issues, here is what Living Greyhawk is using for references in relation to the development of this Blight on Bright Sands story arc:

    - Denizens of the Bright Desert, by Broadhurst (2003) Living Greyhawk Journal 22 in Dungeon 103.
    - Scouring the Lands of the Traitor:Into the Bright Desert, by Broadhurst from Living Greyhawk Journal 21 in Dungeon 98.
    - Rary the Traitor, by TSR staff (1992).
    - Greyhawk Adventures, by Ward (1988). Specifically, The Pits of Azal-Zil entry (pages 91-92).

    Just a few notes. I have not played any of the adventures, yet. But I certainly will. I'm guessing that Living Greyhawk will cast Rary as an ambitious searcher, scouring the Bright Desert for the crown. I am uncertain what motivations Rary will be given in the campaign. There are some good reasons, of course. But which one(s). Any ideas?

    Happy gaming.
    _________________
    Don (Greyson)
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 15, 2002
    Posts: 165
    From: Seattle

    Send private message
    Sun May 15, 2005 9:33 am  

    In addition to what Greyson provided, you might also want to check out the Vathris entry in "The Blood of Heroes", Living Greyhawk Journal #3.
    _________________
    ~basiliv

    I didn't design the world,
    I merely facilitated its creation
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.33 Seconds