Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Postcards from the Flanaess
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
    Canonfire :: View topic - Berghof
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Readers Workshop
    Author Message
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 629
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:47 pm  

    Many of us have different ideas about the so-called Grand Duchy of Berghof--introduced by a couple of UK modules (2 & 3, The Sentinel & The Gauntlet).

    Samwise and Woesinger recently discussed Berghof in the Comments to Samwise's excellent, The Rhola and the Toli: the Battle for Jeklea Bay . See

    I'll post my ideas in a separate post.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 629
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:19 pm  

    See the link above for the article that triggered Samwise and Woesinger's discussion about the so-called Grand Duchy of Berghof.

    My interest in Berghof began when I read the LGJ Campaign Updates and discussed possibly submitting articles to Erik Mona. I acquired and read the relevant modules and then started imagining how to incorporate them into the LGH canon.

    In so doing I developed ideas about Utavo the Wise and his multi-racial alliance (Touv, Olman, and possibly Amedian Suel)--connecting their various magicks to the mysterious inhabitants of Lake Spendlowe and attempting to rationalize the German names.

    Recently (in the past year), I discussed some of my ideas at the Greychat. Gary Holiand agreed that the Germanic problem might be resolved by creating an Oeridian-led army that was sent into the region (March of Monmurg) and then isolated by the resurgent Toli.

    Braiding this with some of Samwise's work, the "grand" appellation (and legal status) might have been established after the death of the Sea Prince--when the "modern" Hold of the Sea Princes was incorporated as a sovereign nation, independent of the Kingdom of Keoland. The "Grand Duchy" may have been a necessary capitulation for the lords of Monmurg and Port Toli, who could not afford to war with Berghof.

    In other words, while a "grand duchy" in name, the title and lands were not derived from royalty but instead from the power elite of the Hold of the Sea Princes ("Seolders," to use Jason Farina's old word). However, Berghof may well have been a "duchy" in the sense that it was the demesne of a duke / dux--an imperial general. (Also, recall that tSB holds that the word duke derives from the Suloise-vocca. Perhaps the Seolders--inheritors of the Toli Suel--ultimately called Berghof a grand duchy because of their linguistic / cultural heritage.)

    Grand Duke Berghof then could have been a Keogh Oeridian. His army--predominantly Oeridian but already mixed with Suloise and Flan families--may have conquered the region around Lake Spendlowe and used many Old Oeridian words to name its places. These names could be form a distinctive dialect. They may have been replacements for the original Flan-vocca names of certain places--the pass, the site of the citadel, etc. If one accepts these ideas, then these distinctively odd, "Berghovian" (?), words are the German words we read in the UK modules.

    In this version of Berghof, the people against whom Grand Duke Berghof struggled were some group of Amedian Toli Suel, who fled into the jungles but retained some of the civilization of their ancestors (including the necromancy). This branch of the Toli Suel may even have settled a significant part of the ports of the Amedio Jungle's "Hook."

    Note that I realize that I am comporting with much of what Samwise and Woesinger suggest. Indeed, I hope to braid together as many of the ideas about Berghof as makes sense to me.

    For example, Woesinger questions the need to construct magickal artifacts to destroy or defend "Alderweig"--the Citadel of the Eagle. Where he wonders about Firstcomer Suel scavenging "some lore salvaged from the fall of the Imperium[,]" I look instead to the magicks of the mixed Flan and Olman peoples who may have orginally settled and struggled within the region. I prefer to have some Keogh Oeridians and Toli Suel uncovering eldritch mysteries of the Flan and Olman (and perhaps some ancient reptilian spell-casters) rather than merely having the magick be from the Suloise Imperium--not that some of these secrets can't also be part of the lore that resulted in the Gauntlet and the Sentinel).

    Regarding the relative power differences between artifacts & relics, lesser artifacts, Epic magic items, "weapons (items) of legacy," and "souped up magic items," I am ignorant, so I make no comment at this time.
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> Readers Workshop All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum

    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!

    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.56 Seconds