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    Canonfire :: View topic - The "Black Brotherhood" Suel cult
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    The "Black Brotherhood" Suel cult
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:15 pm  
    The "Black Brotherhood" Suel cult

    I understand that there is a breakaway faction of former Scarlet Brotherhood Suel members that now worship Tharizdun. They are credited with causing the slave revolt in (Idee? I forget...). But a Dragon magazine mentioned a GOOD, psionic-powered sect of former Scarlet Brotherhood members and credited THEM with said revolt!!! What gives? Also, is there any more info on the Black Brotherhood's membership and activities (and base of operations)? The good psionic Suel only appeared in one magazine article, to my knowledge...
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    From: 1313 StoneCastle Way, Free City of Dyvers, W0G 13F

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    Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:17 pm  

    AnimeFan, I remember playing a Living Greyhawk core mod, Year Five I believe, that made reference to the "Black Brotherhood". Unfortunately, I don't have this available to share or confirm, but one of Grey sages here, may impart this info, if available, to you offline. Wink

    I find allot of these "off-shoot" groups of larger groups like the Scarlet Bros, have little to no "canon" support...which can be a great opportunity for someone...maybe you... to develop something and present it here to be eyeballed and commented upon... maybe even turning it into/apart of the canon lore Happy

    I have a religious sect called the Scarlet Lotus, from my 2nd Ed days, that I've considered to expand upon and post here.... hmmmm.... nah, my writing skills need more work Wink

    Good luck, I'm interested to see where this thread goes.

    AncientGamer Cool aka BusterBudd
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:46 pm  

    Very interesting, I find it difficult however including a good alignment element into the Scarlet Brotherhood. Not saying it can’t or hasn’t been done but I picture a more Neutral influence within the Brotherhood trying to restore the balance to the Great Wheel. Black in color perhaps indicates all alignments paralleling the combination of all colors.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:19 pm  

    The "good" psionic group is called "The Splintered Mind". They are a bunch of monks, psionicists, and rogues who were betrayed by the Scarlet Brotherhood and who now work to foil their plans. The article on them is in Dragon #281.

    This group has nothing to do with Tharizdun so far as I recall, and doesn't sound all that plausable to me anyways. Perhaps I give the SB too much credit for maintaining their secrecy, but then again they did manage to keep their activities hidden from the other nations for centuries, so perhaps not. Happy
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:18 am; edited 2 times in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:19 pm  

    The Black Brotherhood is a secret internal faction that truly does revere Tharizdun. They don't have a base of operations although several members were within the sea princes when a discovery in the western part caused the members to forment a rebellion. This rebellion cause chaos and was soon joined by other factions; former slaves, sea prince loyalists, keoland - think Tenha sheldomar style.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:37 am  

    I use the Black Brotherhood in my campaign but I also tied them into the Yuan'ti in the Hool Marshes. One of our favourite npc villains is a pureblood cleric of Tharizdun who is posing as a Suel and manipulating all the factions.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2002
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    Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:57 pm  

    for the interested "The black Brotherhood" are fist mentioned in I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City, although they are not clearly linked to the scarlet brotherhood in that work. I believe that Erik Mona has claimed credit for merging the two at some point.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:17 am  

    When I ran Dwellers of the Forbidden City for the players in my campaign back in 89', I fleshed out the city ruins and surrounding area much more, adding many more encounters and hidden bits to the area, in effect changing it into a mini-campaign of its own. My players really liked that adventure as it had quite a few unique things about it. I also fleshed out the Black Brotherhood quite a bit, and indeed I did make them a splinter group of the Scarlet Brotherhood, and crazily enough I linked them to Tharizdun as well! Shocked Over the years I've come across a few others who have done the same thing. I had this particular group raiding merchant ships coming out the Iron League nations for the most part, in addition to looking for ancient arcana in the city ruins(which is why they were there mostly).

    This bit is excerpted from page 22 of the adventure, and is the genesis of the Black Brotherhood:

    “2. Rescue
    Many important people have been disappearing from the courts of nearby lands. The people are being kidnapped by the Black Brotherhood (a secret group the DM must create) and given to the yuan ti for safekeeping. The Brotherhood wants to help the yuan ti by weakening the power of the surrounding kingdoms. First the characters must discover who is doing the kidnapping, and then trace the kidnappers to the yuan ti. A group of the Black Brotherhood would be based in the city. The prisoners would be hard to find, for they are scattered throughout the city. Some might be easy to rescue, while others might be very difficult to rescue.”


    Obviously, the Black Brotherhood was made into something much more than just allies of the yuan ti of the Forbidden City in canon. I did likewise, and in keeping to the M.O. of the Black Brotherhood’s forebear the Scarlet Brotherhood, the Black Brotherhood in the adventure worked with the yuan ti, letting them think they were in control, but it was the Black Brotherhood that really orchestrated everything in a Grima Wormtongue fashion behind the scenes. The players were able to find a tome(“The Book of the Black Brotherhood”) in the Black Brotherhood’s base that described the teachings of the organization, which revealed that it was truly a devious group whose sole purpose was to restore the might of Tharizdun. I also linked them to a two-tiered ziggurat(which I designated as being made of black basalt) in the city. The altar atop the ziggurat could be shifted aside, revealing a shaft which opened up into a chamber below which was a mirror image of what was above- an inverted two-tiered ziggurat(Tharizdun’s unholy “obex”).

    In effect, I made the organization’s goal to(by insidious means) bring followers to Tharizdun’s cause. This was a multi-step process(outlined in detail within “The Book of the Black Brotherhood”) which initially involved gathering potential recruits. This might take any form, from providing charity to the ignorant and easily led masses to holding parties or exhibits for the upper classes; whatever it took to get people in the door. Then the poisoning of their minds and souls would slowly begin. The process of indoctrination described in the book is exceedingly long and drawn out, couched in a manner that slowly but inevitably draws in followers to the cult. I made the Forbidden City enclave just a research outpost and hidden base for the Black Brotherhood raiders. I put some captives in their possession though, they being an elven princess from the eastern Lendor Isles and the son of a minor Onnwalian noble family who held much influence among the merchant consortiums of the Iron League. The PCs have yet to encounter any other members of the Black Brotherhood though, so as far as they are concerned the group is one that has grand aspirations rather than one that is in fact already entrenched and on the rise.

    All in all, expanding the Black Brotherhood and the Forbidden City and its surrounds made for a much more interesting adventure.


    Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:58 am; edited 3 times in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:17 pm  

    So...when are you going to post all your modifications to the mod so that we can all benefit from them?
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:17 pm  

    Man! Some poeple are so greedy! Wink

    I'll have to think about it(as I have a lot of stuff currently under way). All of the info I wrote on the Black Brotherhood is literally scribbled on notepaper- some of it in the margins of my "adventure roster", "monsters killed", and "treasure collected" lists from the adventure. What I posted is mostly from memory(as it turned out to be a memorable/pivotal adventure in my campaign). I usually make this type of info up as I go, and add to it in between game sessions. By the end of most adventures I usually have a fairly good amount of cogent information on things. There are very few adventures where I don't do this type of thing, so I have a lot of side information recorded in this way. If I just had a computer at the time... Sad
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    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:30 am  

    Greedy? You don't know the half of it! Wink

    Let's face it, bro. You're in demand. That's not a bad thing.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:11 am  

    bubbagump wrote:
    Greedy? You don't know the half of it! Wink

    Let's face it, bro. You're in demand. That's not a bad thing.


    You guys are actually brothers? WOW, I didn't know that. I'm adopted, so maybe we are all related. Happy OK maybe nobody here really is.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:11 pm  

    We are no more brothers than Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito are twins. Laughing
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    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:31 pm  

    Wait. Which one of us is DeVito?
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:50 pm  

    If you have to ask...


    Happy
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    CF Admin

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    Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:51 am  

    Cebrion, did you ever publish your Dwellers of the Forbidden City mini-campaign notes?

    PaulN6, you, and others, have mentioned yuan-ti in the Hool Marshes. Does this derive from your own imagination, having placed the Forbidden City within the Hool Marshes, or some other source (canon or otherwise)?

    I ask both questions because I am developing a Hold of the Sea Princes campaign and anticipate that the adventure will lead the PCs into the Hool Marshes. Hence, I'm assembling resources to incorporate IMC.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:40 pm  
    Yuan Ti in the Hools

    Regarding the Yuan Ti in the Hools,

    I don't know if PaulN6 was referring to my small piece of lore, but I did an article on the Hold of the Sea Princes which described a city of the yuan ti called H’Thiss Kaa (kind of an onomatopoeia of a snake hissing). There was a mention of such a city in the entry of the Hool Marshes in the From the Ashes Atlas, I just expanded it. I have a great sense of pride that the name made it into Anna Meyer's map of the area!

    So, check out my article on Canonfire: Keoish Intelligence Report from the Hold of the Sea Princes:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=445&mode=&order=0&thold=0

    Next to the sahuagin the yuan ti are some of my favorite baddies!
    CF Admin

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    Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:05 pm  

    Thanks Osmund-Davizid!

    I wondered if you spun the thread for H’Thiss Kaa or if it had some basis in canon and am glad to learn that I need to review FtA.

    That must feel great to have your elaboration included in Anna's map!

    Have you any plans to give us more detail(s) on the city? Would you have its sphere of influence be as large as represented on the map?
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:21 am  

    No, I never wrote them up, but what I have already mentioned must be most of it. The rest was probably just simple 2e stats on the Black Brotherhood raiders the PCs had to fight. I used to have a habit of storing adventure notes in manilla envelopes, so it is possible I still have them somewhere. I put that stuff and older modules and such in magazine storage boxes, so they should be easy to find...if they still exist. I'll try and remember to take a look around for them this weekend.

    [EDIT: Didn't find it. It is...somewhere...]
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:37 am  

    I am going to admit that I have never been particularly fond of Tharzidun, so having a portion of the Scarlet Brotherhood worship him does not work for me at all.

    I would just take any reference in Sargent's work and chalk it up to rumors circulated by rivals that bear no truth to them, in order to discredit the Scarlet Brotherhood and discourage cooperation with them.
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