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    Canonfire :: View topic - The legacy of the Carashast
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    The legacy of the Carashast
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:16 pm  
    The legacy of the Carashast

    Rasgon gives us an excellent history of the wicked Oeridian tribe from which sprang the legendary warlord Carashast of the Caves of Sleep fame, plus his rotten sons who were responsible for the cursed site of Bad Deep.

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=918&mode=&order=0&thold=0

    I really like how Rasgon took the brief info on these and tied them together so nicely. Well done.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:34 am  

    Thanks!

    I'm not sure why there's a definite article in the title, by the way. Possibly I started out writing "Legacy of the Tribe of Carashast" and got distracted?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2002
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    From: Renton WA

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    Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:45 am  

    I thought the article was interesting, good background material for the domain of greyhawk area... and I wondered about the title... nice to see some explanation there rasgon :P
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:45 am  

    I took the title to be a reference to Carashast and his descendants. Still, very nice job whatever happened with the title.

    I also like the reference to Erythnul. I've been interested lately in that god's history as the war god of the Oeridians, until he was displaced by H&H, and that some Oeridians may have held onto him as such, even after their fellows had moved on to the younger gods. I interpret the Erythnul-worshipping Aerdi general who commanded the slaughter at Chokestone to be one of these. I'm probably overanalyzing it, but in this I see an evolution in the common attitude toward Erythnul, from worship of him being just frowned upon to actually being shunned and outlawed in civilized lands.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:34 pm  

    cwslyclgh wrote:
    I thought the article was interesting, good background material for the domain of greyhawk area.


    I thought the article presented some interesting possibilities myself. I would ask; In what year did these events occur? Confused To wit;

    1. Could the Graeki temple building you mention be tied to the Temple of Elemental Evil? Cool (Being unfamiliar with the story/history of the TOEE, I wonder if it could have been housed in this "original" building? Or, maybe, built upon its foundations?) Confused

    2. What do we actually know (in 598CY) about the Cairn Hills? Could they, perhaps, be ancient Graeki burial sites? Confused

    Remember, I've been away from the "official" game for awhile. You guys talk about gaming modules I've never read, or even seen. Sad Thanks for your patience! Happy

    Either would make for an excellent story/game. Cool And should the dragons want the Ring of Balance back, well . . . as if the Circle of Eight didn't already have their hands full! Shocked

    Just my thoughts. Happy
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    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:58 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    1. Could the Graeki temple building you mention be tied to the Temple of Elemental Evil? Cool (Being unfamiliar with the story/history of the TOEE, I wonder if it could have been housed in this "original" building? Or, maybe, built upon its foundations?)


    Yes, that was what I was trying to imply, that Zuggtmoy and Iuz built their temple on a site that already had a history to it that empowered it. It was already unhallowed ground. Whether there was a connection to Zuggtmoy or the Elder Elemental God other than that... I left that vague. But Nulb was on the route between Ull and Greyhawk, so it made sense to me.

    I'd thought of making their history more elaborate still - like having the Graeki act as mercenaries for Vecna and Kas for a while - but Vecna's territory was kind of out of the way, and it seemed a bit much. So I kept it simpler.

    Another possibility I considered but discarded was to call the tribe the Graehakki, or something of the sort, and imply that the etymology of the name "Greyhawk" was related to them. But that seemed a bit much.

    As for the year, the Graeki would have left Ull around -457 CY (about average for the Oeridian tribes), then they were in the Kron Hills about twelve years, so perhaps they arrived in the Gnarley Forest around -445, give or take a few years of wandering before the temple at the-town-that-will-one-day-be-called-Nulb. Carshaxton, whatever.

    Quote:
    2. What do we actually know (in 598CY) about the Cairn Hills? Could they, perhaps, be ancient Graeki burial sites?


    People have been using the Cairn Hills for millennia, and there are a number of different cultures buried there. They're best summarized on Erik Mona's blog, but see also his article Myths of the Cairn Builders. The oldest culture buried there - the androgynous, ebony-skinned people whose bodies do not decay - are the Wind Dukes of Aaqa.

    It's conceivable that some of Carashast's tribe was buried there, although Carashast himself is buried in the Abbor-Alz.
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:08 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    Whether there was a connection to Zuggtmoy or the Elder Elemental God other than that... .


    my brain...i must control myself....almost exploding....


    Laughing

    so...zuggtmoy isnt EEG?
    i thought i had read that she was, in t1-4
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:09 pm  

    Rasgon! Hail and well met! Happy

    GREAT STUFF! I gave you 5 stars! Cool

    And thanks for those sites. Anything more on the Wind Dukes? Their battle with the Queen of Chaos, Mishka, the Staff of Law, etc., has always been legendary. Cool

    But I could never really get any information on who they were! Mad The closest I ever came was a mention (somewhere) that they fought their "cousins" the drow in a final war? Is that Canon? Confused What's the scoop?

    And thanks for Carashast! Cool

    Just my thoughts. Happy
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:31 pm  

    Hey Mystic-Scholar. You can find alot of answers to your questions on the Greyhawk wiki (look to the link at the top of the right bar on the main page), which Rasgon and Rob Bastard have done the lion's share of the work on. Specifically you might be interested in the article on the Wind Dukes. There are links to articles on almost all the subjects you were asking about.
    GreySage

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:50 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    Hey Mystic-Scholar. You can find alot of answers to your questions on the Greyhawk wiki (look to the link at the top of the right bar on the main page), which Rasgon and Rob Bastard have done the lion's share of the work on. Specifically you might be interested in the article on the Wind Dukes. There are links to articles on almost all the subjects you were asking about.


    Scott! Hail and well met! Happy

    Thanks for the link! Cool

    I've found a few things already; but its really just for my curiosity. In the years since I played (late 70's/Army days), I've sort of moved away from the Wind Dukes, but, in my time the Rod of Seven Parts was all the rage. Smile

    Then I found Canonfire! a few weeks ago and became a member 3 days ago and I'd like to use the opportunity I have now to to answer some "old" questions. Wink

    I enjoy your Posts, by the way. See you on the Forums! Happy
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    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:26 am  

    rossik wrote:
    so...zuggtmoy isnt EEG?
    i thought i had read that she was, in t1-4


    Sources disagree on the issue. Gary Gygax, in Oerth Journal #12, claimed that the Elder Elemental God was a separate being called Vlip'afk'chu'rentak, or something unpronounceable like that (I didn't look to check the spelling). In Monster Mythology, Carl Sargent detailed the Elder Elemental God as a separate being. Monte Cook, in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, decided that the Elder Elemental God was a mask of Tharizdun, and that Zuggtmoy was a useful pawn that Tharizdun had used to disguise his true nature even further. Even Zuggtmoy didn't realize that Tharizdun was involved with the temple she thought she had created on her own (with the aid of Iuz).

    Like I said in another thread, I recommend you do what works best in your own campaign.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
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    From: brazil

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:06 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    rossik wrote:
    so...zuggtmoy isnt EEG?
    i thought i had read that she was, in t1-4


    Sources disagree on the issue. Gary Gygax, in Oerth Journal #12, claimed that the Elder Elemental God was a separate being called Vlip'afk'chu'rentak, or something unpronounceable like that (I didn't look to check the spelling). In Monster Mythology, Carl Sargent detailed the Elder Elemental God as a separate being. Monte Cook, in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, decided that the Elder Elemental God was a mask of Tharizdun, and that Zuggtmoy was a useful pawn that Tharizdun had used to disguise his true nature even further. Even Zuggtmoy didn't realize that Tharizdun was involved with the temple she thought she had created on her own (with the aid of Iuz).

    Like I said in another thread, I recommend you do what works best in your own campaign.


    gee, i must have confuse the elder elemental god with the elemental evil.
    the elemental Evil is the one with the eye in flames symbol, right? as int the salmon cover of T1
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:23 am  

    rossik wrote:
    gee, i must have confuse the elder elemental god with the elemental evil.
    the elemental Evil is the one with the eye in flames symbol, right? as int the salmon cover of T1


    They're the same thing.
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:45 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    rossik wrote:
    gee, i must have confuse the elder elemental god with the elemental evil.
    the elemental Evil is the one with the eye in flames symbol, right? as int the salmon cover of T1


    They're the same thing.


    Shocked

    Confused

    Mad MadMadMadMad
    MadMadMadMadMad


    ok...ok.... Wink


    so, lets take only Gary's writings :

    T1- Zuggtmoy=Elemental Evil
    OJ#12- Elder Elemental God=Vilp-akf ícho Rentaq, one of 3 EEG (the only one in Oerth)

    EE and EEG have the same symbol, the "Y" triangle.
    Now, you say that EE and EEG are the same person. If so, then Zuggtmoy was justing using EEG/EE symbol and name (EE) to attract more followers.

    if all this is correct, how did EEG allowed this? if i was a god of darkness and bad things, i would be very angry with someon using my trademarks!
    GreySage

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:48 am  

    rossik wrote:

    if all this is correct, how did EEG allowed this? if i was a god of darkness and bad things, i would be very angry with someon using my trademarks!


    Not if you're Tharizdun! Cool

    Rossik! Hail and well met! Happy

    You must remember that Tharizdun must work "behind the scenes." All the Gods turned on him and imprisoned him. Mad

    If he revealed himself to Zuggtmoy -- even in a display of anger -- then Zuggtmoy could count on the help of all the other Gods in "plugging the leaks" in Tharizdun's prison. Leaks which allow him to influence the Prime Material, the little that he does. Wink

    If he has no influence what-so-ever, on the Prime Material, his escape from his prison would be all the more difficult. Mad

    Tharizdun must "remain hidden." His hands are "tied," in that regard.

    Just my thoughts. Happy
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:53 am  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    rossik wrote:

    if all this is correct, how did EEG allowed this? if i was a god of darkness and bad things, i would be very angry with someon using my trademarks!


    Not if you're Tharizdun! Cool

    Rossik! Hail and well met! Happy

    You must remember that Tharizdun must work "behind the scenes." All the Gods turned on him and imprisoned him. Mad

    If he revealed himself to Zuggtmoy -- even in a display of anger -- then Zuggtmoy could count on the help of all the other Gods in "plugging the leaks" in Tharizdun's prison. Leaks which allow him to influence the Prime Material, the little that he does. Wink

    If he has no influence what-so-ever, on the Prime Material, his escape from his prison would be all the more difficult. Mad

    Tharizdun must "remain hidden." His hands are "tied," in that regard.

    Just my thoughts. Happy



    well, i've already met, but its always good to hail our friends!

    you see, the thing is that im talking about Gary's EEG, so Tharizdun and EEG are not the same. (by Gary, understand?)
    GreySage

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:35 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    rossik wrote:
    so...zuggtmoy isnt EEG?
    i thought i had read that she was, in t1-4


    Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil[/i], decided that the Elder Elemental God was a mask of Tharizdun, and that Zuggtmoy was a useful pawn that Tharizdun had used to disguise his true nature even further. Even Zuggtmoy didn't realize that Tharizdun was involved with the temple she thought she had created on her own (with the aid of Iuz).


    Rossik, I was responding to the above quotes, not to EGG's Elder Elemental God. Sorry for the confusion. Embarassed

    And, yes, I know that we've already "met." Happy But the phrase "Hail and well met!" was the standard "hello, glad to see you" of the Middle Ages and times before that. Knights and Adventurers who met "on the open road" always greeted one another that way, even if they already knew each other. Cool

    In example (i.e.), "Sir Crispin! Hail and well met!" "Hail and well met, Sir Ryan!"

    You and I are "meeting" one another "on the open road" (in the forums)! Cool I use that greeting to maintain the atmosphere of Greyhawk's pre-medieval settings. (for myself, at least) Happy

    Always good to hear from you! Happy
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:39 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    rasgon wrote:
    rossik wrote:
    so...zuggtmoy isnt EEG?
    i thought i had read that she was, in t1-4


    Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil[/i], decided that the Elder Elemental God was a mask of Tharizdun, and that Zuggtmoy was a useful pawn that Tharizdun had used to disguise his true nature even further. Even Zuggtmoy didn't realize that Tharizdun was involved with the temple she thought she had created on her own (with the aid of Iuz).


    Rossik, I was responding to the above quotes, not to EGG's Elder Elemental God. Sorry for the confusion. Embarassed

    And, yes, I know that we've already "met." Happy But the phrase "Hail and well met!" was the standard "hello, glad to see you" of the Middle Ages and times before that. Knights and Adventurers who met "on the open road" always greeted one another that way, even if they already knew each other. Cool

    In example (i.e.), "Sir Crispin! Hail and well met!" "Hail and well met, Sir Ryan!"

    You and I are "meeting" one another "on the open road" (in the forums)! Cool I use that greeting to maintain the atmosphere of Greyhawk's pre-medieval settings. (for myself, at least) Happy

    Always good to hear from you! Happy


    thank you very much for the explanation!
    thats one of the good things about internet foruns: one can learn from other so quicky, and the distance is not a problem.

    cheers!
    GreySage

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    Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:02 pm  

    rossik wrote:
    thats one of the good things about internet foruns: one can learn from other so quicky, and the distance is not a problem.


    Rossik! Hail and well met! Happy

    The "heart" can overcome any distance, my friend! It is the friendship that counts. I'm "here" even if you want nothing more than someone to talk to! Cool

    Its nice to have friends that share a similar interest. "Greyhawk" brings us all together. My "Tower of Sorcery" is always open to you, all of you. Happy

    Just my thoughts. Happy
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