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    Canonfire :: View topic - Undead Realm in the Flanaess
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    Undead Realm in the Flanaess
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    CF Admin

    Joined: Jan 09, 2004
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    From: Stansbury Park, Utah

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:56 am  
    Undead Realm in the Flanaess

    Hi, all.

    Just thought I'd share a thread from Wizards of the Coast's Forgotten Realms messages boards. The below thread has a poster that touches on Vecna, calling his apotheosis a "mystery of D&D" because only he and Azalin seemed to accomplish it from lichdom.

    He also seems to imply that the failure of this ritual engenders a nation or region of undead wherein the lich, failing to ascend, creates a widespread area of necrosis, instead.

    So, I just wondered if Delglath (or someone else) would make or should make an attempt in the World of Greyhawk, fail, and create an undead nation in the Flanaess.

    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1104774

    Just food for thought.

    Don (Greyson)
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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:22 am  

    An undead realm? Or a realm ruled by undead? I think the second sits better with me on first pass.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:53 am  
    Re: Undead Realm in the Flanaess

    Greyson wrote:
    Hi, all.

    Just thought I'd share a thread from Wizards of the Coast's Forgotten Realms messages boards. The below thread has a poster that touches on Vecna, calling his apotheosis a "mystery of D&D" because only he and Azalin seemed to accomplish it from lichdom.

    He also seems to imply that the failure of this ritual engenders a nation or region of undead wherein the lich, failing to ascend, creates a widespread area of necrosis, instead.

    So, I just wondered if Delglath (or someone else) would make or should make an attempt in the World of Greyhawk, fail, and create an undead nation in the Flanaess.

    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1104774

    Just food for thought.

    Don (Greyson)


    Are you asking where we think such a realm would or should be located?
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:14 am  

    That is how I portray Ket in my GH game. They are a living nation, they just use the undead as servants. Necromancy has been worked into day-to-day life with those in power often making animated corpses of their enemies into their slaves and whatnot.

    Like at the end of Shaun of the Dead.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:31 pm  

    Two areas in my world have major undead, the Northern Kingdom and the Scarlet Brotherhood. Interestingly enough, the undead in these two places are used for identical purposes: agriculture. The Northern Kingdom is met with unrelenting attacks from humanoids who have decimated the northern population. So the Northern Kingdom has, in some places, had to rely on reanimated corpses to help supply food. "Dirt" Flan barbarian slaves are used as the go-between. Nyrond, who shows disfavor towards the Flan, turns a blind eye to the necromancy in the Northern Kingdom.

    The Scralet Brotherhood, suffering massive setbacks and losing several leading figures, has had to rely on necromancy too. They use reanimated corpses and other more powerful beings to defend their borders, help supply food (because true Suel are too good for such menial labor) and zombies provide excellent sparring partners for monks and soldiers. There are more than one report of red sailed Suel ships being "the red bannered fleet of the dead."

    There are also some reports that in areas of the Paynims and Iuz, that robber barons have set up their petty fiefs with zombie workers. This helps keep the local populace in line. In Geoff, there is a report of a moving fog which leads to the domain of a feared and most powerful vampire lord, but those reports can't be substantiated.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    From: 1313 StoneCastle Way, Free City of Dyvers, W0G 13F

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm  

    Ugh! Imagine the stink from undead servants... need a box full of those car pine sticks. Laughing

    I believe there could be a moral/ethical challenge to this idea, if you want to run/balance your Greyhawk to values sort of viewed today. Dependant upon the social alignment and acceptance of "Undeath" (I say this part because to be chaotic/evil aligned is not nessarily accepting to the principles of undeath/undead) and just how realistic or fantasy driven your campaign is.

    In my campaigns, there is no "nation" of undead par-say directly in my Greyhawk. There are regions (swamps, forests, islands, etc) that are homage to the living dead and there is the demi-plane of RavenLoft which have portals through out GH linking the two (some closed/locked, a few open... Wink ) and the outter planes that would better suit an undead campaign, the hells, etc... were undead servatude would be more applicable?

    There is always the odd rule of exception, I had developed a "good" aligned vampire, who is mayor of a town along a grey mountain pass in the Griffs and I have based some undead on a more neutral aspect, ie; skeletons are controlled/command driven, similar to golems.

    Use of Undead is generally "repulsive" and non-accepting amidst the "living", unless you are a necromancer (or heavy necro spell user) to control them... good source of cheap labour, but the quality of the work maybe something to be desired Smile .

    Terry Prachetts, "The Reaper" Mort, is a great comical relief aspect to add to the game... maybe he has "another" summer cottage is GH? Happy

    It really just boils down to ones own perceptions, acceptances and ideas on how they would use undead in their campaign. If undead wandering around Ket is "ok" then business must be good for the paladin and clerical types.

    Knock'em dead! Laughing Again!

    ooooo... that favorite time of the year is approaching... Happy Halloween all!!!

    AncientGamer Cool aka BusterBudd
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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:16 pm  

    Actually the smell wouldn't be horrible if you used the spell that keeps the body from rotting. One of my friends who played a necromancer like you would play a modern genius (I hestitate to say villain, but that is the most appropriate word) who uses robots as henchmen. He would use Gentle repose and cast it on them whenever necessary. If you had a guild of necromancers where the apprentices had "freshining duty" (i.e. had to go around with a wand of gentle repose and keep the zombies and skeletons from rotting onto the crops they were working), then they could be used for basic labor, as long as they were ordered to follow the comands of the foreman, who could make sure they were not making mistakes (which would be common for mindless undead).

    The problem comes when you stop using just zombies and skeletons for labor and when you start using the greater undead for other things (shadows mak great spies and assassins, ghouls are wonderful at removal of evidence and as shock troops, etc). If you clothed the zombies and skeletons, and told the people they were autotons, then you could get widespread approval and popularity. Once they find out you are using undead for things other than agriculture and physical labor (carrying bricks for masons, etc), then you have a popular revolt, and the peasants begging nearby good aligned churches to rid them of their "saviors."

    Now if the OP was about an actual Necropolis, like I think, I could see that. In the game I was running in my friend's world (which Anced Math was a player), he had an epic spell fail and backlash, turning the entire city (and everyone in and around it) into undead subservient to the fallen lich (who was destroyed) so in effect you have a city of "free willed" undead bound to serve the master of the city, who can't give them anymore orders. This in the home city of a religion that thinks undead are about as blasphemous as it gets. (I could explain the belief, but that would get WAY off track Happy ). As for where it could happen - anywhere. As logn as you are willing to write in a large part of the Flanaess as overrun by undead and willign to play out the fall out, then have at ye. Its not my style (I prefer not to kill kingdoms unless I am considering it an alternate timeline and will make that clear to the players). I like my post apocolypse to be Sci-fi, not fantasy. Cool
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:33 pm  
    Re: Undead Realm in the Flanaess

    Greyson wrote:
    So, I just wondered if Delglath (or someone else) would make or should make an attempt in the World of Greyhawk, fail, and create an undead nation in the Flanaess.

    I rather considered Delglath to already rule over a small undead nation.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:19 pm  

    I would think Delglath too except for one problem. He's an animus, not a lich so I'd assume he couldn't use that particular ritual, although maybe an animus is close enough. That would probably give him the power he needed to break out of the blockade the North Kingdom has him under.

    Another idea might be Xaene. What's he up to now?
    CF Admin

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:55 pm  
    Should...

    EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
    Are you asking where we think such a realm would or should be located?

    I am asking both questions. Should the Flanaess have a "domain of the dead", ruled and populated by undead? Like Geb in Golarion and Thay in 4E Faerun, to name a couple. If so, where, who and how? If not, that's okay, too. I'm neutral, and don't have too much of an opinion.

    The Flanaess certainly could have such a realm. Age of Worms already asserts that the White Kingdom is deep below the Cairn Hills. But, that's not a surface realm, and probably does not count.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:18 pm  

    It would be easy to throw something in, just so long as you advance the world setting to however you want it to be (such as I have). I would imagine the Sea of Dust would be a good place for an undead-burg. In my setting Salinmoore is a giant sinkhole full of the Azure Sea. Apocalypses happen.
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:30 am  

    Dhalvier's County?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:47 am  

    I would suppose that the pits of Azak-Zil would qualify as an undead "state." Though the animating force is a meteor.
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    Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:14 am  
    Undead in the Flannaes

    You know, the undead as farm labor seems to be a part of at least Hollywood lore about voodoo, if not part of voodoo myth itself. I saw an old Bella Lugosi movie, "White Zombie", with just that theme. It was set in Haiti, with Bella animating the undead to harvest sugar cane and process it for him, in large numbers. Various unscrupulous neighbors also seemed willing to profit from this as well. The comon people were of course horrified (since their friends/relatives/ancestors were being re-animated), but were powerless to stop anything.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:25 pm  

    I remember that movie well. I have zombie and skeleton miners and other work teams(including zombie/skeleton pack and draft animals) being used by those who animate dead all of the time. No need for food or rest; just tools and equipment. Cool

    And you wondered how those evil castles and underground complexes got built so fast and cheaply. Laughing
    CF Admin

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    Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:48 am  

    I would prolly use someone a little less known and with less influence for such a major change. Duke Szeffrin of Bloodcrystal, perhaps, or someone more along those lines. Obviously someone from the former Great Kingdom though.
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    Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:25 pm  

    I have two places in my campaign that fit into the description of an Undead Realm. The first is the Hool Marshes near the Hold of the Sea Princes, which has already been described to my players who had inquired as to the location of said marshes by an NPC questioning their motives for wanting to go there by syaing "Why would you want to go there? There's nothing there except for Bog Imps, Quipper Fish and Necromancers". The second being a remote, back woods county in the Duchy of Urnst that was inspired by the "What about the Duchy of Urst" thread a couple of months back. Honestly my players are still haven't got to the Hool Marshes so this section is pretty distant at the moment.

    The breakdown works pretty much like this. The Hool Marshes are the home of some of the most deadly swamps in the Flaness (In my campaign) and are renowned for the two industries. The Quipper fish that are farmed in the marshes as well as rice and sugar cane that are grown there. Quipper Fish by the way are originally from 1st ed. Don't know if they have ever made it to subsequent editions, but I've always loved them. They are kind of like a cross between a Bass and a Piranha. Because of the prevalence of these numerous and accordingly huge swarms of Quippers very few people go into the interior of the swamps but there are a number of Necromancers that have built towers in the swamp. A number of which own rather expansive rice paddies and sugar cane fields that they use to fund the costs of their research. For an example of how I am basing these characters take a look at Anton Masouri from the Island of Terror Sourange in Ravenloft.

    Anyway, that serves as the basis for the area in the Duchy of Urnst is forming around an idea from the Exemplars of Evil book only it doesn't involve Kyuss although the idea is still being played with at the moment.



    http://www.canonfire.com/cf//modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3268
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:09 am  
    Re: Undead Realm in the Flanaess

    Greyson wrote:
    The below thread has a poster that touches on Vecna, calling his apotheosis a "mystery of D&D" because only he and Azalin seemed to accomplish it from lichdom.

    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1104774


    I just wanted to chime in and note that the premise of that post is doubly wrong. Azalin never ascended. True he tried to achieve demilichdom (which btw is not the same as ascending to godhood) but ultimately he failed. and the creation of Necropolis is due to the malfunction of his doomsday device by which he tried to accomplish his transformation.

    The whole thread is full of half-knowledge and falsehoods.
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    Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:40 pm  

    Just conjure up some mists....voila..Ravenloft. Ravenloft does have some Greyhawk daklords and that way you can do whatever and keep your Greyhawk campaign status quo. Getting the party from Ravenloft back to Greyhawk will be a different matter though Smile
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