One of the founders of our hobby and one of the most unsung contributors to Dungeons & Dragons, Len Lakofka has passed away at the age of 76.
Along with the many adventures, classes, spells, and rules he created, Len was also father of the Suel in Greyhawk, designer of their gods, and namesake of the Lendore Isles.
The value of his work goes without saying, but his presence will be sorely missed. The adventures of Leomund go on.
i just didnt get why this was separated from "old lore"
When I was an active admin of the site, the Old Lore subforum was a pet project of mine and Darva's with a tighter focus than current users desire. Rather than argue about the changing scope, I talked to Gary (Holian, da' webmaster) and requested that subforum go into 'archive' mode for the time being, and a new area with a broader focus replace it. He agreed and Cebrion made it happen, so all's well. The Old Lore posts remain for reference, and await the day I have time to collaborate with Darva on new material. _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
i just didnt get why this was separated from "old lore"
"Our" thoughts on "Old Lore" did not equate with the forum creator's view of the subject, Rossik my friend. Chatdemon meant "Original D&D" and not what "we" consider to be "Old Lore D&D."
Well, actually, we were targeting Mentzer's Basic - Masters/Immortals and/or Rules Cyclopedia edition Basic D&D, and conversations were drifting into Original D&D and the other Basic editions.
But otherwise, yeah. The scope of the forum posts lately went beyond what I intended and I thought the easiest solution was to just replace OL with something more broad and archive the OL stuff.
Various admins over the years have had their pet projects, and that was mine, so I was a little overly touchy about keeping the topic focused, this new subforum gives everyone more freedom to post whatever they want to talk about concerning non AD&D/D20 editions.
Also, to Ceb/other mod (if any? :-P ), since the situation is resolved, we can probably prune the "special character of OD&D GH" thread back to prior to the debate about topic appropriateness. _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
I don't know all of the details yet, so nothing else will be done for now. As to a tighter focus, all of the Greyhawk- Rules Systems Forums are supposed to have a tight focus. Where the problem arose was with the title of the previous forum and debate over anyone and everyone's interpretation of its name and other terms used to describe the older rules systems and where posts on those old rule systems should go. The whole point of the rules system sub-forums is to BE very specific so that you know where to find what you are looking for. The topic has had me thinking of what to do about it since it came up, but apparently Gary reached a decision on what he wanted to do and so it has been done. Some other minor changes may be made later on, but this is how it will be for now until I have the opportunity to ask him about it.
The point of the forums is not to debate the point of the forums. And so, everyone should post in the new Greyhawk- Basic D&D(and related content) forum. I'll likely prune the responses away from this announcement thread before locking it, but I wanted to keep it open for a little while to handle Q & A. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Everything on that page (these are mildly tied to Mystara, but have tons of 'crunch' that ports easily to other settings)
That's Basic D&D, or Classic D&D as it is commonly referred to by many old school players.
And for the record, "Old Lore" does not refer to any specific D&D or AD&D edition or product. It was a joke term. Old School D&D. Old Lore Bards (greyhawk organization). Old Lore D&D. Get it? ::sigh:: _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
As Rich pointed out, "Basic D&D" isn't some arbitrary term for some version of D&D- it *is* a literal version of D&D as it references an actual product, and as such there is a literal line of supporting material for it. There is a reason why *Advanced* Dungeons & Dragons bears the *advanced* label, and that is because it came after a more *basic* version of the game. A simple web search will pull up tons of hits regarding what this material is.
I even bet there is a wiki, somewhere, explaining exactly what Dungeons & Dragons is and what forms it has appeared in over the years. Yes, I know- the internet is amazing! If only more people would use those amazing things called search engines.
Just so that I know, have you never heard of "Basic D&D" before?
There are probably people who haven't. Just wondering if you fall into that group or not.
Also, I will very specifically define what constitutes "Basic D&D", which is an actual product, and its related products in the first post before editing everything out and locking the announcement. I did this in the forums description on the main forum page, but I guess nobody read it. I'll likely shorten that message to include the bit "...Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set and related products..." and then lay out what that includes in detail in this post. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:48 am; edited 2 times in total
Also, I will very specifically define what constitutes "Basic D&D", which is an actual product, and its related products in the first post before editing everything out and locking the announcement. I did this in the forums description on the main forum page, but I guess nobody read it. I'll likely shorten that message to include the bit "...Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set and related products..." and then lay out what that includes in detail in this post.
Feel free to copy/paste from my acaeum links post if people agree it's clear and useful for defining the edition. The in depth descriptions and cover photos on that site make understanding the organization of older products much easier, it's a great site, and easy to navigate and use once you get familiar with it. Contrary to Mystic Scholar's guess, it took me no time at all (10 minutes?) to grab those links, and I dont mind at all if the post is quoted or used in whole to help the community here. _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
You didn't happen to start playing after 2000 did you? I can see if you started playing in 2000 at 15, you could be 25 and have only seen it as D&D after almost 10 years of playing.
Actually, there are a surprising number of people who quit playing or buying products after the old white and/or brown boxed sets. In fact, you don't have to look far to find all sorts of groups who quit playing or buying products after virtually any edition. Some quit because they didn't like the direction the game was headed, and some (like the Scholar) quit because they had to grow up and get jobs.
And for those who just don't know, there are entire communities dedicated to any version of the rules you could name. Don't like 4e? Fine - there's a community out there for you. Don't like 3e either? Then there are several 2e communities. Do you only like to play wiht the old Moldvay Basic and Expert sets and nothing else? Then guess what: there are lots of people around who won't play anything else.
The D&D world is a big place, and it's extremely fractured, but IMHO that just means there's a greater variety of gamer friends to choose from. And variety, as they say, is the spice of life.
Then again, "spice" is the plural of "spouse," isn't it? (Don't tell my wife I said that!)
Feel free to copy/paste from my acaeum links post if people agree it's clear and useful for defining the edition.
Yes, the Acaeum is a great resource site. People can Google products if they wish for more detailed information. When the gallery goes up there will something similar to what the Acaeum has for each product here, and I'll just post a link to the Basic D&D section then. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Some quit because they didn't like the direction the game was headed, and some (like the Scholar) quit because they had to grow up and get jobs.
As was stated, some of these "products" were realatively "new" during my last year of playing and are unfamiliar to me and the terminology not remembered, if I ever knew it. I think I can recall AD&D being all the "rage" as I was drifting away, but I don't think I ever played it. I've lost contact with that DM over 30 years ago, so I can't ask him. Sorry.
Perhaps my DM never used all those available at the time, I wouldn't know I wasn't DMing. Most of the editions that I hear referred to on the "general" forum weren't even published. I never even heard of them until I found Canonfire! Sorry.
And Chatdemon, I appreciate your efforts to supply information to the uninformed like me no matter how easy it might be. Thanks again.
Cebrion, your efforts to "simplify" are always appreciated. Thanks very much for all you do.
I find it interesting. I envisioned a senario where lots of people may have started playing in the last few years and not have known about all the previous editions. Your example was just the opposite. You were playing in a window of time right before me when there was just "D&D." When I started, I had never seen or heard of the OD&D pamplets or even the Holmes Basic. So I had always thought the game had started with a Basic/Expert line and the Advanced line. I remember someone showing me the Holmes Basic book and an OD&D pamphlet or two a few years later and didn't know how it fit it to the scheme of things. The guy that showed it to me didn't really let me read them either so I never knew what the differences were until last year when I started searching on the Internet. What a tool the Internet can be. I was surprised at what I found because I had started to make some assumptions trying to figure out if the Basic or Advanced lines where more true to OD&D and really the way they both started was one was the core of the other as the game was expanding. It wasn't until the Moldvay Basic that I think Basic branched diverged into it's own entity.
With all my renewed interest in D&D, I've recently purchased the Holmes book and it's inspired me to start writing a module like Joe Bloch is doing. I'm calling it B0 and basing it on the Holmes sample levels illustration. Finding time to work on it is hard so I won't be done soon. I'm going for that 1977 feel. I don't think it'll be as good as Joe's WG13 looks but I'm inclined to try since I'm not playing any games right now.
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