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GreySage
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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From: LG Dyvers
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:22 pm
Exag - Independent city?
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I was just glancing across the LGG map of the Flanaess and noticed that Exag, in Perrenland, is denoted by a black triangle. This is the same symbol used to denote the City of Greyhawk, Dyvers, Ountsy and other independent cities in the map legend.
I can find no reference mentioning Exag's status as an independent city in the text of the LGG. The only mention I find, in fact, is within the description of Perrenland wherein it notes that Exag is the northwestern terminus of a trade road.
The Greyhawk Wiki confirms its independent status with a single statement: "Exag is an autonomous city-state within Perrenland." That is absolutely all that it says.
Is this a mistake on the map, or is there other reference that I am not aware of that separates Exag from the rest of Perrenland politically?
SirXaris
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Adept Greytalker
Joined: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 498
From: Dantredun, MN
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:14 pm
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Yes, it's an independent city. Dungeon #145 has full details on Exag, although it's a little too demystified and mundane for my taste. The Dungeon article is based on an old forum post from Erik Mona that has been archived here: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=222
IIRC, there was an interesting reference to Exag in one of the old Gord or maybe even Estes novels, but I have no idea where.
EDIT: I just did a forum search and it revealed a history of Exag threads all posted about two years apart. You might want to poke around.
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GreySage
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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From: LG Dyvers
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:38 pm
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Thanks for the Erik Mona article link, Vestcoat. That was helpful, though did not fully satisfy my curiousity.
I have googled many articles seeking some initial mention of Exag as a independent city only to come up short. The LGG and its accompanying map were printed in 2000, but the Mona article you linked above is dated in 2002. Dungeon Magazine #145 is from 2007. Every other reference I can find is later than 2000.
My question then, is whether there is an earlier work than the Living Greyhawk Gazatteer which canonizes Exag's independence from Perrenland. I note that Erik Mona is one of the authors of the LGG, so maybe Exag was listed in that reference as an independent city based upon ideas he had at the time or fan-created articles he'd written earlier. Can this be verified?
SirXaris
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Adept Greytalker
Joined: Jul 29, 2006
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From: Dantredun, MN
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:06 pm
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Gary Holian wrote this c. 1996 and was also one of the LLG authors:
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Exag: An ancient and little known society calling themselves
simply "The Illuminated Ones". They play almost no role in
the current politics of Perrenland. In fact, Exag is often
treated as a city unto itself, and is said to be far more ancient
than anything within a thousand miles of it, including in the
Lands of the Bakluni. Nothing short of a direct investigation
is liable to reveal more. |
-OJ #3, Sorcerous Societies of the Flanaess by Gary Holian
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GreySage
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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From: LG Dyvers
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:57 pm
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Ha! Thanks Vestcoat!
I'd have never thought to look in that article for such an obscure reference to Exag.
SirXaris
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
Posts: 3310
From: Michigan
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:15 pm
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Rose Estes' novel The Price of Power took place largely in Exag. Estes' version of the city was very different from the Dungeon #145 version, but it was definitely an independent city-state there.
Not that Estes' novels are canon, but the idea of an independent Exag has a lengthy pedigree, and that's where Gary Holian got the idea.
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GreySage
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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From: LG Dyvers
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:55 pm
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rasgon wrote: |
Not that Estes' novels are canon, but the idea of an independent Exag has a lengthy pedigree, and that's where Gary Holian got the idea. |
Thanks Rasgon.
I was just surprised when I saw it as I hadn't remembered that being the case. I hoped it hadn't just popped onto the map out of thin air.
SirXaris
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:53 pm
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Ahh! Don't you just love it when the threads of a good mystery come together, Sir Xaris?
Interesting stuff. _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:10 am
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Speaking of mysteries, check out Erik Mona's Mysteries of Exag.
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GreySage
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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From: South-Central Pennsylvania
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:08 am
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Dang nab it! I knew Rasgon was a 20th level Illusionist!
Always pulling another rabbit out of his hat!
Thanks for sharing, Rip! _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:20 am
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Heh. Vestcoat already linked to that Erik Mona article earlier in this thread, actually. I should have been paying more attention.
The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer did note in the description of the Mounds of Dawn (p. 146) that Exag was often cut off from the rest of Perrenland by monsters.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:43 pm
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rasgon wrote: |
Rose Estes' novel The Price of Power took place largely in Exag. Estes' version of the city was very different from the Dungeon #145 version, but it was definitely an independent city-state there.
Not that Estes' novels are canon, but the idea of an independent Exag has a lengthy pedigree, and that's where Gary Holian got the idea. |
-When I first saw the course of this thread, I thought about bringing up old master Wolf, but feared being pelted with rotten fruit by the natives.
I'm glad you brought it up.
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GreySage
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:47 pm
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Fortunately, I have no shame.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:52 pm
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rasgon wrote: |
Fortunately, I have no shame. |
Actually, I thought that the idea of the city being run by a predestination/astrology priesthood was interesting (Istus?). The city walls made out of Trappers was imaginative, but a bit much...
I thought it was an odd fit for a place so close to Perrenland, though. Maybe more Bakluni.
Anyway, I never DM'ed anything there, so it never came up.
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GreySage
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:08 pm
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jamesdglick wrote: |
Actually, I thought that the idea of the city being run by a predestination/astrology priesthood was interesting (Istus?). The city walls made out of Trappers was imaginative, but a bit much... |
It wasn't a bad idea, generally. It was actually a cult of sun-worshipers, mainly, so hard to square with the known gods of the Flanaess. Though a demon was behind it.
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:14 pm
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rasgon wrote: |
jamesdglick wrote: |
Actually, I thought that the idea of the city being run by a predestination/astrology priesthood was interesting (Istus?). The city walls made out of Trappers was imaginative, but a bit much... |
It wasn't a bad idea, generally. It was actually a cult of sun-worshipers, mainly, so hard to square with the known gods of the Flanaess. Though a demon was behind it. |
I must be mis-remembering, and I forgot about the demon. I thought the people wore different colored clothing based on their month of birth (essentially, zodiac).
A sun god would be Pelor, but that's a lousy fit (I think there was human sacrifice involved), unless the demon did a really good corruption job on them...
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Adept Greytalker
Joined: Jul 29, 2006
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From: Dantredun, MN
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:22 pm
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rasgon wrote: |
It was actually a cult of sun-worshipers, mainly, so hard to square with the known gods of the Flanaess. Though a demon was behind it. |
He's not technically a god of the Flanaess, but Tezcatlipoca (CE - sun, moon, night, scheming, betrayals) sounds about right: "His priests sacrifice to him to bring gentle sunlight to crops and parching heat to the crops of their enemies" (SB43). A hint of Olman culture in Perrenland could be fun to explain.
Or maybe Pelor has some not-too-neutral-good cults in the Western Flanaess where he's known as Al'Asran....or maybe those priests of Nerull have taken over another monastery of Pholtus!
(OK OK, I should probably read that Dungeon article and the Estes demon reference before brainstorming.)
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Adept Greytalker
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:59 pm
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vestcoat wrote: |
rasgon wrote: |
It was actually a cult of sun-worshipers, mainly, so hard to square with the known gods of the Flanaess. Though a demon was behind it. |
He's not technically a god of the Flanaess, but Tezcatlipoca (CE - sun, moon, night, scheming, betrayals) sounds about right: "His priests sacrifice to him to bring gentle sunlight to crops and parching heat to the crops of their enemies" (SB43). A hint of Olman culture in Perrenland could be fun to explain.
Or maybe Pelor has some not-too-neutral-good cults in the Western Flanaess where he's known as Al'Asran....or maybe those priests of Nerull have taken over another monastery of Pholtus!
(OK OK, I should probably read that Dungeon article and the Estes demon reference before brainstorming.) |
IIRC, it was the Estes-created demon lord, Maelfesh, who was behind the cult.
As for Pelorian splinter cults, there was an interesting series of posts about 10+ years ago on GreyTalk involving the demon lord Pelor, whose cult had supplanted that of the benevolent sun god, Solnor.
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Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:07 pm
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Found this old WotC forum thread about the Demon Lord Pelor (note the stats Rip reposted): http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor,_the_Burning_Hate?pg=1
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Grandmaster Greytalker
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Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:12 am
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One thing that had never struck me before until I was reading the DNG article on Exag was how the inhabitants remind me a little of the Cynideceans from B4 - The Lost City.
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