Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - How to Hurt the 'Unhurtable'
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    How to Hurt the 'Unhurtable'
    Author Message
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Mon May 06, 2013 3:58 pm  
    How to Hurt the 'Unhurtable'

    Question: Can falling, fire, drowning, and acid damage be used to hurt creatures that require magical weapons (or spells) to harm?

    I've allowed fire to be used as a weapon against things like lycanthropes.
    I imagine a lycanthrope can be drowned, too.
    I figure if fire would hurt one, so, too, would acid.
    And would falling damage such a creature, too? Confused

    Some creatures (non-living) wouldn't be harmed by drowning (elementals, for instance, save the fire variety). Fire won't likely harm something like a gargoyle, given they are stone (nor would drowning, since they aren't alive), but a fall might (if they are rendered flightless, of course).

    Maybe the answer is, "It depends on the creature."

    ideas?

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2591
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Mon May 06, 2013 4:50 pm  

    It's a good question and your answer seems appropriate as a rule of thumb.

    I imagine a werewolf, for example, falling over a cliff and breaking many bones upon impact at the bottom. I then imagine the fractured bones snapping back into place, blood spurting, wounds closing, etc. as its body slowly mends. The few rounds it takes for the lycanthrope's body to heal itself give the PCs time to run! Evil Grin

    To take a suggestion from 3.5ed., this kind of damage is called 'non-lethal damage.' It is added to the lethal damage a creature takes, but once the creature reaches 0 hit points, it is merely unconscious, not dead. It heals non-lethal damage at a faster rate than lethal damage and is only killed if it suffers lethal damage equal to, or greater than, its hit point total.

    For example, the PC's only have a single +1 sword wielded by the party's fighter. He hits twice, but the werewolf is about to kill him. The dwarven barbarian pushes the werewolf over the cliff to the sound of breaking bones and furious howls. Peering over the edge, the PCs see the mangled body bubbling and twitching as the evil magic heals the wounds of the unconscious creature. Not wasting a second longer, the PCs turn and run for the safety of the nearest temple, grabbing up silver holy symbols to club the creature with if it assails them within its holy confines. Cool

    SirXaris
    _________________
    SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
    Posts: 290
    From: The Pomarj

    Send private message
    Mon May 06, 2013 5:13 pm  



    Last edited by BlueWitch on Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2781
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Mon May 06, 2013 5:43 pm  

    Some good points have been brought up here. For myself, I do not see magical weapons as always being necessary. For instance . . . fire.

    Fire destroys flesh . . . period. What? Running water can kill a Vampire, but fire cannot? What is the reasoning behind "running water" in the first place?

    Some of the creatures mentioned have great regenerative powers, but that doesn't keep them from dying, or being destroyed.

    For a Vampire, dirt from its grave must be kept in its coffin, that's where its "restoration" comes from. Take the ashes of a burnt up Vampire, place them in its coffin -- not some "other" coffin -- and it will "return." Failing that, the Vampire is destroyed and will remain so. That's one example.

    As for a Lycanthrope, the process is the same . . . it's still flesh, fire burns and destroys flesh. I cannot think of a way in which the ashes would reform into the Lycanthrope. Of course -- in both cases -- this method would require the body to be completely destroyed, not merely "burnt badly." I can see the Lycanthrope's badly burnt body healing itself.

    As for a significant fall . . . if you can get to it, beheading will "kill" anything. That's not to say that the creature's restorative powers will not bring it back, not if you foolishly leave the head there! But take the head with you and I think you've done of fairly good job of "killing" the creature more "permanent" like. Bury the head someplace far away.

    But that's just my thinking. Wink
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 545
    From: British Isles

    Send private message
    Thu May 09, 2013 5:51 am  

    In the example of the lycanthrope attacked by fire I'd imagine that the burns caused by a flaming torch or a produce flame spell will quickly heal just like other attacks. What's more relevant is the amount of damage caused. Whereas a few serious burns would heal a lycanthrope reduced to ashes might not.

    Perhaps for example you could use a guideline that if the creatures sustains fire damage equivalent of twice its total hit points it's incinerated enough that it cannot regenerate the damage.

    You could apply this to other creatures and damages too. Perhaps falling damage (broken bones etc) is easier for a lycanthrope to recover from so it would need to sustain 3 or 4 times its total hit point sin falling damage?
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2781
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Thu May 09, 2013 8:04 am  

    Wolfling wrote:
    What's more relevant is the amount of damage caused. Whereas a few serious burns would heal a lycanthrope reduced to ashes might not.


    My point exactly and while a lycanthrope might heal damage while in "were" form, does that apply to their human form?

    I don't think so, so I don't "allow" that. The magical healing is a result of their magical form.

    But you might play it differently. Cool
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Thu May 09, 2013 2:27 pm  

    Fire and acid damage (and holy water to undead and denizens of the Lower Planes) cannot be regenerated. Normal means of healing (or curative magic) are required.

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2781
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Thu May 09, 2013 3:15 pm  

    A man who chooses to alter the way spells work, shouldn't be emphasizing the word "cannot." Razz


    Laughing Laughing Laughing
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Thu May 09, 2013 4:48 pm  

    Embarassed

    Fair enough...

    -Lanthorn, "Guidelines" Transmuter
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 03, 2011
    Posts: 79
    From: Fairwind Isle

    Send private message
    Thu May 16, 2013 4:38 pm  

    Acid on a lycanthrope? Oh yeah, they'll die permanently for sure if they were dropped in a vat and couldn't get out. I reckon they could regenerate from a partial dousing. Same would go for fire and falling.

    What if they fell from really really high and literally splattered all over the place, I wonder... What's the requirement for a lycanthrope or any non-undead that regenerates, to be able to grow a whole new body? Like one cell? One appendage?
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Thu May 16, 2013 4:50 pm  

    Personally, I'd consider damage from fire and acid non-regeneratable as it is mentioned in the Player's Handbook.

    Falling damage could be, though it may take a while for the lycanthrope if driven into negatives, if you rule they take damage from falling in the first place.

    I do not subscribe to the "Wolverine" regeneration philosophy as portrayed in movies and some of the later comic books. It seems ludicrous to me. If the majority of the body is destroyed, the creature dies.

    Besides, lycanthropes don't regenerate in the true sense of the word. They are immune to non-magical attacks (barring fire and acid, I think) and only 'regenerate' after/between shifting (10-60% of any damage sustained).

    -Lanthorn
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.29 Seconds