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    Canonfire :: View topic - Perfect Epic villain
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    Perfect Epic villain
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:04 pm  
    Perfect Epic villain

    Besides Iuz or Vecna, the old mainstays...I nominate Iggwilv as the perfect epic villain. I used her very effectively IMC and her ties to Iuz, Grazzt and more give her much weight in the affairs of Oerth and the Planes both.
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:14 pm  

    Im working on upgrading a few evil villans for Epic greyhawk very soon, when I get them finished I think they will be posted on this site. Gary has been pushing me to get a certain death knight done ;)

    If you ever went throught he Tomb of Horrors I would consider Acererack an epic level villan to say the least.

    There is always Rary and Robilar, or other Suel liches to help fill the gaps.

    Im sure there are many more that I can think of too. just not right now! hehe
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:16 pm  

    Iggwilv offers much in the way of Epic games, besides the Return of the Eight module, she is also mentioned in Isle of the Ape indirectly. In it she sends an Arcanoloth, Tul-Oc-Luc to steal the prize. She is akin to a Lillith figure in GH and makes for a very Epic Villian!
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:27 pm  

    IMC, I took Iggwilv a step further when my players thought they could handle her. I made her mother none other than Baba Yaga of the Dancing Hut fame. Talk about shock factor.
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    Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:16 am  

    Iggwilv has been a favorite of mine since S4. Her daughter, running around the globe chamber with boots of spider climbing and a bastard sword is one of the best encounters ever. With the strong (and not overused) stories surrounding her, she is perfect for a high level advesary.

    I also think that the Suel Mages of Power could well qualify. There is a module of the Suel Imperium posted on this site about going back in time before the Rain of Colorless Fire. This should make a great starting point for an Epic Game.
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    Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:48 pm  

    Iggwiliv is a very good choice for a Epic GH Villian that is best served by the use of Epic rulez, but another one is the Scarlet Brotherhood. They might have the largest organization of Epic scale characters on the continent of Oerik. The Boneheart of Iuz also begs to have an Epic redo..but what do you think?
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    Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:44 pm  

    I would love to see the boneheart redone, I think they are epic level for sure In my eyes.

    And the Scarlet Brotherhood you could argue has trained for so long in secrecy who knows, they could have epic level monk assassins bouncing off the walls. (exaggeration)

    You cant forget the Huge land mass that is too the west also. It wasnt detailed for a reason, plenty of huge space to go romping around in your own Epic back yard as it were :)

    If you ever read the module that had the *doomgrinder* in it, dont you think it would have taken epic level characters to create that ?
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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:44 am  

    I Have some ideas of epic antagonists (not just villains):

    - In Pomarj, That evil, earth spirit being who grants spells known as The Earth Dragon can be considered a distan child of Beory and a low-level demigod. Using ELH, I like to see it as a Demigod (Rank 1) Genius Loci (whose body is in the Drachen Mountain)

    - The six Great Night Hags of Incabulos who are his major lieutenants riding with him in the planes. I have created them for my campaign ,but I am undecided iif I post here or send as an article. either way, it will took a while for its 10 pages needs to be translated

    - Lyzandred, the mad: I always loved this lich, especially for not being downright evil. I've created its stats long ago (it's in 3.0 rules), using the variant good lich from Monsters of Faerun (though in 3.5 it seems that book Liber Mortis will have this creature detailed). Here it is:

    Lyzandred the Mad - Lawful Neutral Lich ,former male human (baklunish)
    Wizard 28, Archmage 5

    Armor Class: 47 (+5 natural + 20 armor + 6 dexterity +6 deflection)
    Hp: 33d12 (294 Hp) - Fast Healing 3

    Face/Reach: 5x5/5 Speed: 40 ft Initiative: +6
    Attack: Touch +17/+12 Ranged Touch +22/+17
    Damage: 1d8+5 (Will save 30 for 1/2) + paralysis (Fort Save 30 negates)

    Special Attacks: negative energy touch attack + paralysis, Fear aura (all less than 5 HD must Will save DC 30 or be affected like fear spell)

    Special qualities: Projection, turning Immunity, +4 turn resistance, SR 40 Damage Reduction 15/+1, Evasion, Immune to cold, polymorph, petrification, mind-affecting attacks, critical hits, fire & electricity (due to item and spell)

    Archmage abilities: Arcane reach (touch spells have 30 ft reach), Mastery of counterspelling, Mastery of elements (as elemental substitution feat to all elements, no level up), Spell Power +2, Arcane Fire (Su): convert any spell to energy bolt, 600 ft dmg: 5d6 +1d6/spell lvl

    Str 12 Dex 22 Con - Int 45 Wis 10 Cha 20

    Saves: Fort:+22 Ref:+28 Will: +28

    Skills: Knowledge arcana +53 , Knowledge undead +35, Knowledge the planes +44, Knowledge (architecture & engineering) +35, Knowledge Nature +18, Knowledge Religion +19, Concentration +53, Spellcraft +53, Scry +53, Craft(carpentry) +27, Craft (stonemasonry) +30, Craft (blacksmithing) +30,
    Appraise +25, Bluff +12, Diplomacy +20, Gather Information +20, Intuit Direction +10, Speak Language (14), Wilderness Lore +10, Hide +14, Listen +10, Spot +10, Move Silently +14, Search +10, Sense Motive +10, Jump +21, Climb +21, Tumble +21, Balance +21

    Languages: ancient baklunish, ancient suloise, old oeridian, flan, common, undercommon, giant, dwarf, elf, halfling, gnome, orc, goblin, auran, aquam, terram, ignam, infernal, abyssal, celestial, draconic, sylvan, slaad, druidic, nyrondese, olman, rhopan, ulagha, velondi, keolandish, ferral, cold tongue

    Feats: Craft staff, forge ring, craft rod, craft wondrous item, scribe scroll, skill focus: spellcraft, spell focus: abjuration, spell focus: illusion, maximize spell, quicken spell, silent spell, subdual substitution

    Epic feats: Epic spellcasting, Craft epic staff, Improved spell capacity (10th), Improved spell capacity (11th) Craft artifact, Craft epic wondrous item, Tenacious magic

    Spell penetration: +33 (+spell power if applicable)

    Permanency: see invisibility, comprehend languages, read magic, arcane sight, protection from arrows. Contingency: greater dispelling if helpless
    Chain contingency: grtr dispelling, ghostform & teleport if less than 30 hp.
    Drawmij instant summons (Phylactery)

    Epic spells (3/day): até nivel 60 : Epic mage armor, superb dispelling, Soul scry, peripety, let go of me, create living vault, Dying call

    Spells: 4/9/8/8/12//7/7/7/7/3/3
    Save DC: 27 + (spellpower if applicable) + 2 if its illusion or abjuration

    1- shield x2, sleep, grease, true strike, feather fall, obscuring mist
    2- mirror image x2, invisibility, webx2, blur, rope trick
    3- Haste x2, dispel magic, fly, displacement, vampiric touch, slow
    4- Maximized Magic missile x3, double axe of Procan, stoneskin, enervation x3, otiluke's resilient sphere, silent dispel magic, rainbow pattern, improved invisibility
    5- Teleport x2, quickened magic missile x2, ghostform, feeblemind, silent dimension door, cloudkill
    6- Silent teleport, acid fog, Otiluke's freezing sphere, greater dispelling, mislead, true seeing, disintegrate
    7- Power word stun, teleport without error, maximized sonic orb, Mordenkainen sword, shadow walk, forcecage, energy immunity
    8- Horrid wilting x2, maze, Bigby's clenched fist, quickened acid orb, Otto's rresistable dance, mind blank
    9- Timestop, wish, temporal stasis, imprisonment, Bigby's crushing hand, Mordenkainen disjunction, Lyzandred's deadly maze
    10- Silent meteor swarm, quickened chain lightning, silent timestop
    11- Maximized horrid wilting x2, quickened teleport without error


    Relevant or normally items:
    Staff of Cosmos (guarded in vault)
    Boots of Swiftness
    Ring of Rapid Healing
    Ring of Wizardry IV (doubles 4th level spells)
    Staff of the Magi
    Gray Robe of Archmagi
    Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance 40
    Bracers of Epic deflection +6
    Necklace of freedom of movement
    Diadem of epic intelligence +12
    Silk skin (preserves vs decay, epic resistance +10 , elemental immunity -fire)
    Mask of charming (act as eyes of charming at will and immune to gaze attacks)
    Rod of excellent magic
    Rod of Greater Chaining
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    Last edited by Wykthor on Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:54 am; edited 3 times in total
    CF Admin

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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:13 am  

    Kewl!
    I like the Genius Loci for the Earth Dragon! Makes sense and fits. What more can you ask for in a GH monster?
    Keep it coming Happy
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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:20 pm  
    IMC

    IMC my heros are facing Cleetu, Grand Vizier to the Isles of Woe, and powerful mage in his own right. In a recent Dragon Magazine there was a Map of Mystery or Some Such called the "Hall of Cleetu," a round hall, several stories high, with many doors and water in the bottom.

    Cleetu is now a lich, one who buried himself in his greatest creation... the Hall of Cleetu. This hall was how the Isles of Woe expanded their empire; each door is 15' tall and 25' wide, and reaches to portals through out the world of GH, and to other planes (including Sigil and the City of Brass). IMC this hall was sunk, just as the Isles were, but it remained intact, because only creatures bearing a particular broach could use the portals. Even though the Isles were destroyed, this little bit of it held on, at least for a time. Cleetu, still human, was able to wrest a bit of the fallen empire under his sway, from inside the Hall. A little know Hero Diety, Oldimarra was able to destroy the final refuge of foul sorcery, but not before Cleetu transformed into a lich.

    It was this act which completed Oldimarra's ascension to godhood. He actually tricked world that the Hall was Destroyed, but it remained intact, just flooded. Oldimarra enchanted a pipe so that the Nyr Dyv could flow through it when stuck through the main portal.

    Flash forward severl millenium: our dauntless heroes stumble through an ancient portal found in a set of ruins under the Dim Forest. They see the water at the bottom of Cleetu's Hall and believe that it has begun to flood (not knowing that the water has actually been seeping out for thousands of years). A demon guards the room, torturing a pixie who followed a Goblin through. The heros defeat the demon and are told by the pixie what she has seen... she followed a goblin through the portal, by hiding on his shoulder. She had been attempting to drive him from her home in the Adri forest, but he was simply too powerful.

    The Goblin had been studying and ancient and forgotten gate near her home for several weeks. When they stepped through the portal they found themselves in an enormous hall lit by an erie green light coming from the water below. Doors like the one they came through lined the walls.

    Suddenly, from the depths a horrid undead creature erupted, floating over the water. The Goblin immediately fell to his knees and begged forgiveness for the intrusion. The Goblin, it turned out was an Exemplar of the Goblin God of trickery. What ensued was a deal, brokered by the goblin, between the Goblin God and Cleetu. Cleetu was awarded a demiplane, and the Goblin God took contorl of the Hall. Togeather they have schemed against every group possilbe... giants, drow, humans, elves and huminoids. And every group assumes that some other power is pulling the goblins strings... after all, how big a threat could the goblins be?

    In this vein, my players have fallen absolute victim to such racial prejudice. Even though they heard the narrative of the pixie, they disregarded the tale almost unwittingly. The party has been attacked by numerous creatures, seeking an artifact they never possessed. They actually assume that a gaudy crown they have is the artifact, and that they are just not powerful enough to use it (we love Nystul). They have defended that gaudy relic against giants, drow, demons, devils, it is really rather amusing.

    Now they are looking for "Oldimarra's Pipe," and actually have it, but they assume that they are looking for a smoking pipe, and think the long gold tube they have is some sort of telescope.

    The goblin god and Cleetu have no end of mirth watching the "hero's," defend this crown; they do not like them, though as they beat back the first goblin invasion with the aid of the Gran March Military and a contingent of the Knights of the Watch.

    I realize that this was a long ramble, but a) I enjoyed it, and b) I wanted to convey the non-supra villan that I am seeking in my epic level game. My heros are powerful, but even with divination spells, they have had enormous difficulties piercing the veil surrounding these two. And since they assume that "goblins are not that smart," they are constantly seeking answers in the wrong places.
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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:44 pm  

    Very Funny, Anced_Math. Trickery is one of a Dm's best tools :-D

    Regarding a petty, epic villain, I read once about a Greater Gibbering Mouther (the only known to exist) named Xuxeteanlahucuxolazapaminaco
    which is, besides the longest and most horrible name to spell in all my life, the ruler of the amedian city Chetanicatla (oth creature and city described in The Scarlet Brotherhood book). This creature can easily be considered a paragon gibbering mouther (CR 23) and applying some individual extraordinary qualities (such as the capacity of budding gibberspawn, a barely sentient creature used to control slaves). A trip to this deserted city with the discovery and destruction of this aberration can be a epic story without any outstanding consequence.

    Another villain that could be easily incorporated is the Hoary Hunter from ELH. All you need is a cold, moonlit, night and some victims.
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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:22 pm  

    Genus Loci for the ED, damn I wish I had thoguht of that! I am also interested in the 6 night hags of incabulous, just the sort of thing i could use.
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    Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:46 pm  

    mortellan wrote:
    Genus Loci for the ED, damn I wish I had thoguht of that! I am also interested in the 6 night hags of incabulous, just the sort of thing i could use.


    Whatever is a genius locus ???
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    Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:00 am  

    Thanael, Genius Loci is a monster from the Epic Level Handbook that is an animated portion of the landscape, like a hill or mountain.

    Mortellan: I have finished translating the Hag material but there are several parts that I underlined or used bold font. Is there a way to submit an atrticle sending by mail attachment instead pasting in the "submit article" link ? (I believe that all these modifications will be lost there)
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    Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:04 pm  

    I don't know Wykthor, I've always formatted my articles by hand in the submit box by using html. I suppose one of the editors will chime in soon with an answer.
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    Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:26 am  

    Mortellan, I talked with GLH the other day and sent to him the articles, thanks.

    Returning to the topic, there is another epic villain that deserves much attention: the Warduke (he was described in a dungeon some time ago). I'm planning to use him soon (not as a for to combat); does anyone have similar uses to him?
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    Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:53 am  
    Another epic villans(s)

    I would like to refer you all over to the general discussion section, to the thread where we are taking a stab at describing the various layers of Abyss.

    I think you will find that the Caged Legions would be an outstanding Epic Villan, (no stats).
    Mad Archmage of the Oerth Journal

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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:18 am  
    Epic level NPC's

    Actually, I happen to have a few NPC's probably going up on my webpage for Epic level Campaign ideas rather soon. The list includes Tuerny the Merciless (a lvl 18+ wizard nalfashnee demon!), Ivid V (for those wanting to raid Rauxes!), Rary the Traitor, Jaran Krimeah (the Black One), Korenth Zan (of the Scarlet Brotherhood), and many more to come.

    Do keep in mind though, that the Vale of the Mage, Isle of the Ape, Rary the Traitor, and even the Crypt of Lyzandred modules could easily be retooled for epic level adventures as well (all the NPC's being epic levels themselves.)

    The web link is www.geocities.com/duicarthan.geo and I should be trying to get these up as fast as I can. If someone has a conversion of an NPC they want posted I would gladly post it there as well. Just send it to duicarthan (at) hotmail.com.
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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:09 am  

    Duicarthan,

    I plan to use Tuerny soon, but haven't build its sheet yet. What will be its CR?
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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:33 am  

    Hello Duicarthan!
    So that`s your page. I downloaded some material from there a while ago and have a question about your Circle of Eight stats:
    You have a Mordenkainen at Mage level 26 listed in there in the Rot8 NPCs listing. AFAIK there are no stats for Mordy, Bigby, Drawmij Nystul or Otto in Rot8.
    Is there any canon reference for these stats of did you make them up?
    Mad Archmage of the Oerth Journal

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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:41 am  

    Well I am currently looking over the Circle 8 intensivley since none of these personages save Mordenkainen has really got a level up since Return of the Eight came out. I used their old Return of the Eight stats as well as the Living Greyhawk Journal 0 for my references initially but I am about to throw some level ups to all of the Circle 8 considering its been a few years since they've seen one.

    also I've been going over Tuerny a LOT with his summoning capabilities and all. I have him currently as a CR 37!
    Tuerny the Merciless, Male Demon (Nalfeshnee) Outsider14/Wiz18/Thau5

    I've thought about lowering this but really after the rigors of the Abyss to become a Nalfashnee in the first place I think he's earned it.

    As for Mordenkainen I currently have him as a Wiz27 and thinking of making him a ArchMage as well of so Wiz27/ ArcMa3.
    Note: The NPC's webpage is a work in process I should have that page up VERY soon.
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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:57 am  

    Quote:
    I've been going over Tuerny a LOT with his summoning capabilities and all. I have him currently as a CR 37!
    Tuerny the Merciless, Male Demon (Nalfeshnee) Outsider14/Wiz18/Thau5


    Wow! That sounds very tough. I think thats very good for a villian of Tuernys' measure. If this is indication of what an truly epic villian can be then I shudder to think what Iggwilv would look like. Almost ...too...scary Shocked
    Mad Archmage of the Oerth Journal

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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:31 pm  
    A Few Samples

    Some samples from the list of NPC's I am working on.

    Iggwilv, Female Half-Fiend Human Wiz26/Thau5/ArMa5: CR 39
    Ivid V, Male Animus Human Clr7/Wiz15: CR 25/ 24 w/ no cleric spells
    Jaran "The Black One" Krimeah, Male Shade Human Wiz22/ArMa4: CR 28
    Rary the Traitor, Male Human Wiz23/ArMa3: CR 26
    Tuerny the Merciless, Male Demon, Nalfeshnee; Outsider14/Wiz18/Thau5: CR 37

    I thought about Iggwilv being a sorceress but after careful consideration and my best attempt to stay with canon I kept her as a classic wizard with a few enchancements. I made her a half-fiend to show the changes she has gone through since traveling the planes and the effects of her consort Grazzt, not to mention her son Iuz. The fact that she only shows her true human age or to appear as a magnificent beauty when she chooses proves to me that she has indeed changed. I currently have the 3.5e full stat blocks for all of these NPC's. Still working on getting more done atm. Once I have about 10 solid ones I will have the NPC page up. Till then hold on tight cos I am gonna be pluggen away. =)

    Also Wykthor, I'd like your permission to post your copy of Lyzandred on my page as well with all due credits of course. =)

    Well time to run, busy busy! =P
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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:52 pm  

    Wow!

    Iggwilv is about right my personal thoughts, which for my two cents is overpriced. I had her pegged around 30-40th, a bit behind good ol' Zagyg.
    I agree with the choice of Wizard. Sorcerer seems good but she is about power and skill not just the embodiment of spells. So it makes good sense to stick with a wizard in that regard. I for one reason or another keep finding myself looking for ways to put sorcerers in the game retroactively rather than just work with them as in and move on. The Half-feind is something for contention..perhaps feindish..or well putting up with Grazz't maybe a lesser taint, but I cant against the end result though.

    Ivid, hmm well with the Feind Knights and a couple of powerful animus spellcasters and advanced devils..eek!

    Jaran I dont find as much of an opponent but looks pretty good as well!

    Rary, I use a scaling grade for him..keeping him about a level or 2 above the PC's APL, but again about right with some of the things in Dungeon and elsewhere.

    Hey sounds like you got a helluva good Epic game going on there, please share the info you got with us when you get the time! Happy
    Mad Archmage of the Oerth Journal

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    Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:01 pm  
    Jaran Krimeah

    Jaran Krimeah and the Vale of the Mage is all about having the party at a disadvantage. They don't know where he is, they can't track or scry on him from his citadel. He has Tysilyn San (drow female Wiz lvl 14-18) as First protector and an army of spellcasting arrow harrowing valley elves (likely some high level arcane archers, eldritch knights, and bladesingers in there too) and the gnomes who are known for illusions and mischief.
    Simply surviving through this valley is an epic adventure b/c there is no way to sleep or rest b/c the elves and gnomes attack anyone who enters the Vale, a good example on the level of difficulty is to compare this whole area to the City of Skulls adventure but add in the fact that the minute you enter you will be watched, tracked, and assaulted unless you leave. Not a good thing. Also something of mention Jaran Krimeah likely has a direct gate to the Plane of Shadow in that citadel and the capability to summon more creatures. So this could well mean a foray into the Plane of Shadow just to get to Jaran himself! EEEP!

    Oh yes, one last thing Jaran "The Black One" Krimeah belongs to the Ring of Five. Not someone to mess with imho.
    1.) Zagig Yragerne
    2.) The Black One
    3.) Tuerny
    4.) Daern
    5.) Keoghtom

    Anyway just my analysis.
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    Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:05 am  

    @Duicarthan: This is great stuff! Can`t wait to see the site. I`ve been looking for NPC conversions on the net for quite a while and there`s not much out there. Will there be non epic ones too? Will you take submissions? To have a big GH 3.5 NPC list wuold be great!

    BTW with my question i meant the circle8stats.rtf downloadable from your 2E section. The mordy at 26 in there is not supported by any 2e reference. As for their 3e stats will you put them on the NPC page too?


    @Dethand: Zagyg is a demigod! So he`s still one step up from Iggwilv even if you peg her at CL 49. (which the Dicefreaks version wil probably be, but without any template)

    Check out http://community.dicefreaks.com for 3.5 stats Grazzt, Iuz, some other Greyhawk gods, and many other epic threats. (Also be sure to download their free pdf publication the Gates of Hell!)
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    Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:48 am  

    True that Zagyg is a demi-god (he got a little breathing room when Iggwilv was, err..busy), but Iggwilv is more my style for a villian since I first read about her in S4.

    I like Jaran I really dont have plans for him in my games, and although a trip through the Vale of the Mage would be a hair-raising experience it would have little use in my current Epic home game, so thats why I may seem to have a lack of interestin using Jaran and the Vale of the Mage. Maybe also because I have understood his power and need to be isolated as well. But please share with us your veiws, a lot of other DM's would probably like to see how the Vale of the Mage will look stated out (me included)!

    Good stuff over all Duicarthan, I hope you will keep posting here, I'm sure I can convince Gary to get an Epic Topic up and running soon if we get good submissions for it coming in! Smile
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    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

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    Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:02 am  

    Dethand wrote:
    Iggwilv is about right my personal thoughts, which for my two cents is overpriced. I had her pegged around 30-40th, a bit behind good ol' Zagyg.

    To clarify: I was referring to this comment of yours..
    And not suggesting Zagyg as an epic villain. (which could be rather funny though!)
    Quote:
    The Half-feind is something for contention..perhaps feindish..or well putting up with Grazz't maybe a lesser taint, but I cant against the end result though.

    Yes. I too believe the half-fiend template does not quite fit. But then again I`ll decide when i see her stats.
    Quote:
    Hey sounds like you got a helluva good Epic game going on there, please share the info you got with us when you get the time! Happy

    Second!
    Mad Archmage of the Oerth Journal

    Joined: Dec 09, 2002
    Posts: 342
    From: Ohio

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    Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:38 pm  

    Well today was the start of the Boneheart personages.
    I started with Althea as a lvl 25 cleric of Iuz and got Null finished as a lvl 24 wizard. I am really trying to stick to canon with every character so I spend about an hour or so combing over every detail. so an hour/ character. so it takes time to get them done when i work 10 hours/ day sometimes. Anyway, I will allow links for submissions to a html statblock page using a modified E-tools format (comparible to a stat-block you'd see in Dungeon Magazine). All of my posts are going to be rtf format b/c its easy and it doesnt mess up the nice stat-block format readability like html does (and its easier to cut and paste for ANY DM).

    Though imho opinion Iggwilv at lvl 45 is a little over the top, b/c thats pushing her over the quasi-diety range. Keep in mind she was captured by Grazzt once, so shes powerful yes, but not comparable to a demigod or quasi-diety.

    Haha anyone even going against Zagyg is going to be in for trouble. Imagine the havoc the players will have to suffer though mixing slapstick humor, Loony Tunes, and even pun humor into an adventure. Zagyg would simply laugh at them while they attack pummel them with falling anvils, squirting flowers of acid, wreck havoc with their spells (cough rod of wonder anyone?), and turn their weapons into rubber chickens. I mean cmon, fighting him really isnt worth it b/c your players are GOING to get mad or fall over laughing then say it was a dream right? I've always found it better to have Zagyg be a LOT like Fizban from Dragonlance. The doting old funny wizard who walks around and drives the players nuts but not someone they want to kill. Truly though Zagyg would mess with the characters if attacked theres no way to know whats real with him and whats not. The admixture of illusions and conjured items would be preposterous. (stoppping now b/c my imagination is expanding this idea WAY too FAR!) =P

    Oh yeah, Iggwilv = in the works shes a tough cookie to peg for that Template but I do think something fiendish will work just gotta research some more. =)

    >>Reply>>BTW with my question i meant the circle8stats.rtf downloadable from your 2E section. The mordy at 26 in there is not supported by any 2e reference. As for their 3e stats will you put them on the NPC page too?

    All of the Circle 8 past, present will be included in the 3.5 NPC Page. As for my Mordy in 2e. Well that was a speculation built from canon examples (not direct canon), and that was done 2 years prior to 3e ever coming out, and in the Epic Level Handbook he's lvl 27 so i think I guessed fairly well there. heh =)

    Current Listing-
    Ivid V, Jaran Krimeah, Iggwilv (in the worx), Circle 8 (in the worx), Lord Robilar (a little more buff), The Boneheart (Null and Althea so far), Tuerny the Merciless, Mordenkainen (a little more buff), Rary the Traitor (considering some edits).

    Please feel free to add NPC's you'd like to see in posts here or through email; duicarthan (at) hotmail . And yes, I will be doing all NPC's (probly nothing below lvl 10 though for now) I can get to at a time past/ present/ future (as they come out). This includes a new look on Drelnza (Iggwilvs daughter!).
    _________________
    Cheerz,
    -Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
    Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
    http://www.oerthjournal.com http://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
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