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    Canonfire :: View topic - References for Demons/Devils in Greyhawk
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    References for Demons/Devils in Greyhawk
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 13, 2004
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    From: St.Louis, Missouri USA

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    Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:43 am  
    References for Demons/Devils in Greyhawk

    I am looking for references for the interaction of Devil and Demon Lords in GH. Party actions in my campaign are causing them (and their enemies) to summon things that are starting to have implications. I have perused this site and my 1E, 2E, 3.xE source books for information. What I am looking for is suggestions, ideas, and cannon for current interactions since the WARS. Unfortunately, I do NOT have FtA, so I am missing some source material that may be pertinent. I am familiar with ToEE, RToEE, Tharizdun, etc actions (i.e. module events). The Forbidden Caves article on this site is fully interesting, and an option. But anything else I may be missing might give me the spark I am missing. Thanks ahead of time.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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    Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:39 am  
    Re: References for Demons/Devils in Greyhawk

    Garnak wrote:
    I am looking for references for the interaction of Devil and Demon Lords in GH. . . . What I am looking for is suggestions, ideas, and cannon for current interactions since the WARS.


    Demon Lords -

    Demogorgon is on the move in GH. Gary Holian in a couple of Living Greyhawk Journal articles (I do not have my gaming material immediately at hand) and in the Isle of Dread background article in the Dungeon (again I cannot make immediate reference to the issue number) has emphasized Demogorgon's growing activity on Oerik. Demogorgon has also appeared in several "default" D&D products where GH is the default, post-Wars.

    By old "canon" terms, Demogorgon is a relatively new active player on Oerik. Other demon lords have been far more active in the past. I speculate that with the poor results (from a demon's point of view) achieved during the Greyhawk Wars serving Iuz (who lost all his demons in the Flight of the Fiends thanks to Canon Hazen of Veluna's use of the Crook of Rao), Grazzt and the usual demon lords are taking a step back to evaluate their situation on Oerik. Into the breach has stepped Demogorgon.

    Of course, Demogorgon has a traditional rivalry with Grazzt that would add motivation to step in as Grazzt licks his wounds after Iuz' failure to better capitalize on fiendish aid. Demogorgon also has a traditional rivalry with Orcus.

    Orcus is another demon lord on the move on Oerik and another who has not been as active in the past. "Canon" references to Orcus' increasing activity are more slight that those involving Demogorgon, being largely references in various D&D sourcebooks from Wotc. If you step into the broader would of d20, however, you will find Orcus has fascinated a number of writers, particularly from Sword & Sorcery Studios. You can find a lot of information on the big fella.

    Orcus is ripe for a confrontation with Nerull. Both have all the subtlty of Godzilla on the town in Tokyo but that makes their confrontation all the more inevitable, IMO. It will probably wind up a draw but both will be taken down a peg in the process, IMO.

    Yeenoghu is also seeing a little more activity, breaking free of Orcus' sway and looking to better his position in the demonic heirarchy. The Maure Castle adventure in Dungeon really opens doors for Yeenoghu that a DM can exploit.

    IMC, I have Yeenoghu, Orcus and Bahomet heavily involved with the tripartite Maure clan.

    Bahomet is by far the "stealth" demon lord on the move. I wish I had my books so I could substantiate this for you. Bahomet is no where directly mentioned in any major way but as a Bahomet fan (see Rasgon's Canonfire article for an outstanding treatment of Bahomet) I have found a number of Bahomet tie-ins scattered throughout a number of products. Pulled together, I think they point to Bahomet being up to something.

    Arch-Devils -

    The Hells are still in much ferment that began in 2E. Depending on which "canon" source you read, there are at least three different versions of what is going on in the Hells. I'm not going to try to sort that out (particularly without my books) but one player seems to be more active than any other Arch Devil - "Levistus." Again, there are multiple canon treatments of Levistus but it appears that, despite being locked in a block of ice, Levistus is becoming more active. "Canon" is limited to references, much like Orcus. There is no single source devoted entirely to Levistus. The Frostburn book, however, has a great deal of information on him.

    Inreractions -

    Whether devil or demon, it seems they are all generally "looking for influence" but no specific plots have been laid out (unlike Grazzt grand plan to drag all of the Realms into the Abyss and conquer Oerik with Iuz and Iggwilv as catspaws). I think the old rivalries from 1E continue to drive matters, in the main.

    There will be shortly (?) a series of articles in Dragon/Dungeon on the Demon Princes that will further develop "canon."

    Hope this helps.

    GVD
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    GVD
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    From: Rel Astra

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    Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:37 am  

    We touch on it a little in a different thread..

    Devil/Demon stuffs
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 06, 2003
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    Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:07 am  

    I have not read much in way of devils having an invested role in the affairs of the Flanaess. However, in Ivid the Undying Baalzephon, one of the Circle of 8 from the 9 Hells, has fostered his own church in The Great Kingdom. The name that people worship him by is Baalzy and his i the state religion. Pit Fiends are summoned, as i recall, by his priests to help in the creation of animuses (animi?) before and during the Greyhawk Wars.

    Another active Netherworld being of power is Pazrael. He is stirring up mischief in Almor. His goal is to unset Iuz as the dominate demonic power in the Flanaess, he thinks Iuz doesn't know about his presence, but Iuz does. This info is also from Ivid the Undying, which is set after the Greyhawk wars. I haven't read anything else concerning this rivalry or the cult of Baalzy in any other source, 2E or 3E.

    Should you place your campaign in Aerdy at this time period there would be alot of contention between Baalzephon and Pazrael. Because Pazrael is pouring his effort into the dark abyss otherwise known as Almor at this time, and Baalzy not being particularly popular with the populace, i imagine most of their conflicts are through 3rd parties. Parties such as the players, NPCs, and probably not through direct means. In my campaigns the gods have interjected quite forcefully to negate any permament effects from an extraplanar's gate ability. If that were the case then Oerth would have been overrun with demons and devils ages ago and none of the powers want that.

    The Grey Mouser
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    Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:44 am  

    Erik Mona has commissoned a new series of articles about the various Lords etc in Dragon. Pazzuzu (sp) should be in the March issue.

    Mike
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:55 am  

    Thanks for the update
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 10, 2003
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    From: Harker Heights, TX

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    Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:19 pm  
    Hell on Oerth

    Hey Garnak,

    I have attempted to blend some canon and non canon sources in an article posted on CF. Granted, it is about 80% non canonical extrapolation from limited references, but it gives the diabolic some more face time on Oerth. And, if you take The Guide to Hell by Chris Pramas as GH canon, then there is much more diabolic influence in Oerth then we are led to believe (they are more subtle in their ways then the demons).

    Here's the link:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=453&mode=&order=0&thold=0

    Let me know what you think of it!

    O-D
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