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    Canonfire :: View topic - Tomb of the Lizard King cultists
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 1st Edition
    Tomb of the Lizard King cultists
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:12 pm  
    Tomb of the Lizard King cultists

    Those of you who know me best know that I normally patrol the 2e board, but occasionally drift down to the 1e board. Here's why:

    OK, so I got a copy of this module and intend to set the location in the Mistmarsh neighboring Greyhawk City for my own reasons and convenience.

    Sakatha (the Lizard King vampire wizard) has allied himself with a cadre of priests of unspecified religious affiliation (with respect to a Power, that is). All we know is that they are-

    1) obviously Evil (especially Chaotic), and
    2) demon-worshippers

    As a result, I want to specify the Power that these cultists revere but keep to the aforementioned 2 conditions. As a result, there are only a few Powers that seem to make sense but many others do not.

    Hextor does NOT fit the bill. He's Lawful and tends to associate with Devils.

    Erythnul does not work either. He's more of a mindless, brutal, savage killer mainly associated with humanoids.

    Incabulos and Nerull are more Neutral Evil in aspect and lean towards Yugoloths than Demons (Tanar'ri). They don't work.

    Iuz is an obvious choice, but I will admit that I am growing weary of always playing the Old One card. His priests have featured too many times in my existing campaigns already. I would like some variety! If push came to shove, I will use him but...

    Some other choices may work, but they need HUMAN followers.

    Both Juiblex and Demogorgon don't work on this score. Neither does Zuggtmoy. There followers tend to be non-human.

    Orcus is apparently dead (!!!) Evil or I would use him!

    That leaves me wondering if GRAZZT would work. Does he even have Demigod or Divine status to grant clerics spells?

    ugh!!!

    -Lanthorn
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    Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:18 pm  

    Why not Orcus? I don't think any Greyhawk source states that he was killed. If not him, how about Lolth? She already has one human cleric in Lareth. Why not a few more? I also don't see a problem with Demogorgon and think he'd be a good fit for Sakatha.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:13 pm  

    According to what I have been told from another thread, Orcus was destroyed around 579 CY. My campaign takes place at 582 CY, just prior to the Greyhawk Wars. Furthermore, I think there is implication in that post that Orcus alone cannot bestow clergy with spells. Here is the link:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5867

    Lareth was a drow elf when I played. My DM and I never considered him to be human, and I don't see Lolth accepting human clergy (my personal opinion).

    Demogorgon has few, if any, human followers, according to Monster Mythology, even though he might be willing to have a partnership with reptilians such as lizard men and a vampire lizard king mage.

    -Lanthorn
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    Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:50 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    Demogorgon has few, if any, human followers, according to Monster Mythology, even though he might be willing to have a partnership with reptilians such as lizard men and a vampire lizard king mage.

    -Lanthorn

    "[F]ew" human followers doesn't mean "none". Demogorgon was responsible for the seduction and betrayal of Saint Kargoth and the death knights, so he already has a Greyhawk pedigree.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:26 pm  

    True that, DMPrata. So maybe I shouldn't discount Demogorgon entirely.

    Wondering, as a follow-up, if Grazzt has any clerics?

    Did Orcus?

    -Lanthorn
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    Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:52 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    True that, DMPrata. So maybe I shouldn't discount Demogorgon entirely.

    Wondering, as a follow-up, if Grazzt has any clerics?

    Did Orcus?

    -Lanthorn

    In my opinion, yes; they all do. See here: http://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/Demonic.pdf.


    Last edited by DMPrata on Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:39 am  

    I'd use Orcus.
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    GreySage

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    Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:15 pm  

    DMPrata, your link is busted. Confused

    Cebrion, I would very much like to use Orcus, but unless I ignore the timeline proposed by Rasgon (which I could do, of course), he's RIP and not available. :(

    However, that detail notwithstanding, Orcus seems like a fine match if Grazzt is not a likely candidate.

    -Lanthorn

    p.s. stay tuned for a follow-up question, likely on the Orcus thread, unless somebody else has something to add...
    CF Admin

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    Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:53 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    DMPrata, your link is busted. Confused


    Try it without the period: http://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/Demonic.pdf
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:10 am  

    grodog wrote:
    Lanthorn wrote:
    DMPrata, your link is busted. Confused


    Try it without the period: http://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/Demonic.pdf

    Fixed. Thanks, Allan.
    GreySage

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    Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:36 am  

    OK, this is very helpful and gives me some material to work with. Thank you. Now I just need to decide...

    ...Orcus or Grazzt...(though I can still use Iuz in a pinch, if needed)

    ...and then convert 1e spells to 2e spell spheres.

    I would be willing to entertain ideas for BOTH in the meantime, if anyone feels like posting his/her respective suggestions.

    BTW, I noted that you had Erishkigal and Nergal noted, both of whom are the patron Powers for the clerics in the 'resurrected' (excuse the pun) "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands." I have ideas for that module, too, but intended to substitute Nerull for the aforementioned deities.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
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    Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:03 pm  

    First, awesome demonic pantheon DMPrata. I'll make great use of it I have no doubt. Secondly to Lanthorn, I recommend you use Grazzt because he has numerous ties to Oerth and I think he would be cool for your adventure/campaign. Orcus would also be cool, but I think Grazzt would give you more options if you wanted to explore them.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:22 pm  

    I would prefer Orcus as he is bestial in nature. Other than that, a big factor for me would be that Graz'zt already has his twelve fingers in enough pies. Yet another factor is an author thinking it is awesome to burn the building down (i.e. Let's kill Orcus...permanently! No, we destroyed his demon amulet too, and Tharizdun ate his immortal soul on a tea biscuit and everything! He's dead! DEAD!!! And junk.). That went really well for FR fans too. Razz

    I recommend using Orcus as you see fit, and deciding his fate on your own terms rather than on the whim of an author.

    Or you can use something entirely new. The are any number of unnamed demon lords other than those known. Perhaps there is some undead beast/reptile cult demon lord who wants to gain power over nature/invade the Beast Lands, and Sakatha represents this demon lord's latest efforts on the Prime Material Plane. This calls to mind the leader of the werewolves of the Menowood too (see 83' WOG boxed set). Cool Followers of nature deities likely do not get on well with this demon lord and its followers, and the adventure locale just so happens to be one where such followers might be found. Happy
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

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    Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:59 pm  

    After much due and thoughtful consideration, I have decided upon Orcus for a few reasons:

    1) He's a demon lord, and the tomb of Sakatha clearly states there are depictions of demons throughout his lair.
    2) His portfolio is about undeath, which dovetails nicely with Sakatha's vampiric status.

    thank you all!

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

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    Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:01 pm  

    As a sidenote, I know that DMPrata has a pantheonic list for the Devils, but I cannot seem to find it...any help would be MUCH appreciated for me to access that list/site!

    -Lanthorn
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    Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:41 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    As a sidenote, I know that DMPrata has a pantheonic list for the Devils, but I cannot seem to find it...any help would be MUCH appreciated for me to access that list/site!

    -Lanthorn

    All of my Deitybase files are hosted at K&K (plus a few others). The main document / table of contents is http://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/Deitybase.pdf. Disregard all the now-dead hyperlinks in the table of contents; just use the index at http://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata.
    GreySage

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    Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:37 pm  

    Thank you!!! These are all very useful for me to use as templates.

    much obliged,

    Lanthorn the Appreciative
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    Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:17 pm  
    Demon

    Since you mentioned the Keep on the Borderlands, have you thought also about:

    1. Lakshesherek

    http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061020a


    2. Moloch (MM2 1st Ed.)
    3. Pagnyr'Parkus (HackMaster)

    I can't tell if they meet your human worshiper requirement though.
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