Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - The Sword of Lyons
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- D&D 5th Edition
    The Sword of Lyons
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 14, 2019
    Posts: 18


    Send private message
    Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:18 pm  
    The Sword of Lyons

    I'm DMing the A0-A4 adventures, Against the Slave Lords (and converting to 5e as I go). I'm still in A0, but in A3, there's a unique swords called the Sword of Lyons. I've searched and can't find any canon about that name, so I figured I'd make it myself. As you can see from the history, I tried to reference the Scarlet Brotherhood without mentioning them by name as we are in the "canon" timeline of the Slave Lords, CY 578 or thereabouts, and the SB is still somewhat of an unknown. In any event, please review and comment about anything, but I guess if there's a place to focus, it's in the history and if it aligns with Greyhawk history well and what can be done to touch it up / improve it / trash it and start over (I'm old and long past the age where pride interferes with much in my life). So without further ado...

    THE SWORD OF LYONS

    Weapon (short sword), legendary (requires attunement by a good-aligned humanoid)


    You gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
    This weapon is always invisible, as is its sheath while it’s sheathed.
    While wearing the sheathed sword, you are invisible. Anything you are wearing or carrying is invisible with you. You remain invisible until you unsheathe the sword, or until you attack or cast a spell. To become invisible again, you must sheathe the sword.
    While the sword is sheathed and you are carrying it, you are under the effects of a nondetection spell. The sword knows this ability and gets nervous if unsheathed for too long.

    Sentience. The Sword of Lyons is a neutral good weapon with an intelligence of 16, wisdom of 12, and charisma of 11. It has hearing and darkvision out to a range of 60 feet.
    The weapon communicates telepathically with its wielder and can speak, read, and understand any human dialect on the Flanaess. It typically communicates using Suloise.

    Personality. The Sword of Lyons’ purpose is to destroy slavery and preserve the line of the House of Lyons. With Cedrik dead, it is unaware of any living Lyons descendent. The sword will frequently lament it being the last of the great line (as if it were truly a descendent). It won’t conflict with the owner except if the owner participates in or tolerates slavery and may disagree if the owner is too merciful toward a slaver. The sword may also have trouble discerning between a slave and someone justly imprisoned.

    History. The Sword of Lyons is a sentient short sword forged by master smiths in the employ of the House of Lyons hundreds of years ago. The House of Lyons was of a pure line of Suloise living primarily on the Tilvanot Peninsula. Many of their Suel kin did not share their disdain of slavery. This made the House of Lyons an enemy of those who sought to enslave or conquer anyone not of pure Suel descent. This led to open conflict between the House of Lyons and several others. It was during that conflict that the Sword of Lyons was forged. Too few stood with the Lyons and the great family fell, even with the powerful sword. Their line, however, continued in secret.
    One such descendant, Cedrik Lyraston (the surname taken by the survivors), wielded the Sword of Lyons in his quest to rid the world of the new threat, the Slave Lords of the Pomarj. He dealt a blow to the organization, but was killed by Stalman Klim.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2595
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:53 pm  

    Check out the links in this Google search - especially the third one, from Greyhawk Online. They contain some information on the Sword of Lyons that may help you.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=slavers%2C+sword+of+lyons&oq=slavers%2C+sword+of+lyons&aqs=chrome..69i57.19981j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

    SirXaris
    _________________
    SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 14, 2019
    Posts: 18


    Send private message
    Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:44 pm  

    Thanks for the link. Most of the stuff I've seen, but the link you highlighted was new to me. There were a few subtle differences, but quite interesting to see another take. The stats were quite similar, but I actually rolled my stats per the DMG.

    Any comments on the history of the item? Am I butchering canon or am I at least a little faithful? Thanks.

    ***
    Here's what was in that link, for those not willing to click and search:

    SWORD OF LYONS
    CG Tiny object (+1 vanishing blurstrike short
    sword)
    Senses darkvision 120ft, hearing; Spot +0, Listen
    +10
    Languages Common, Elven, Old Oeridian (speech,
    limited- telepathy)
    Hardness 8 hp 25 Ego 17
    Abilities Str -, Dex -, Con -, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha
    16
    Spell-like abilities: (CL 5th): (3/day) – invisibility
    SQ hide in plain sight
    Skills Hide +10
    Personality: This legendary short sword was
    dumped by order of the slave lords, in hopes that
    it would never be found. Little is known of the
    blades persona, other than it riled up the slave
    lords enough to be tossed into a mass of white
    goo.
    Strong Conjuration; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms
    and Armor, trap the soul; Price 26,310gp; Cost to
    Create N/A; Reference: Assault on the Aerie of the
    Slave Lords
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 539
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:05 pm  

    Your history for the sword is fine.

    If I were to revise it, I would make its history closer to where the PCs find it. Instead of the Tilvanot Peninsula, I'd likely make the conflict be between House Lyons and the vile "Firstcomer" Suel who settled "a lost city of the Old Suloise [within the Suss Forest] — from which the Jewel River gained its name" and the "Suenha Hills" (a Suel name for the Drachenscrab Hills). See the World of Greyhawk Guide at 47 and Living Greyhawk Gazetteer at 87, 144-45. (Other discussions of the vile Suel who settled the Drachenscrabs, iirc, are in Greyhawk Adventures, Joe Bloch's "See the Pomarj - and Die" in Dragon #167, and Slavers.

    If you like this change, then the short sword might have been created by one of the Flan peoples of the region who resisted the Suel invasion (for a time). (You might then also connect the sword's prehistory to Krovis and/or the Earth Dragon.)

    I'd also want to change the name "Lyons," which feels too obviously French. The Francoprovençal, "Liyon", seems like a good start for customizing it.

    Alternatively, focusing on the name, you might connect the sword to the Kingdom of Keoland and its Throne of the Lion. Samwise has the Suenha Suel settling the Drachensgrabs after fleeing from "the end of the House Wars in Keoland[.]" See The Yaheetes and Tyrus: The Wars Against the Hand and the Eye in the Sheldomar. (The House Wars name when the young Kingdom of Keoland consolidated its power over the Sheldomar Valley. They began in CY -340, paused in -330, resumed in -312, and ended in -303 (according to Samwise).
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2595
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:26 pm  

    I didn't note anything in your history that conflicts with established canon (though I am no Rasgon Wink ), but it does add many questions you may want to answer to allow your sword's history to mesh more fully with canon.

    For example, the Suel houses that settled the Sheldomar Basin included the Houses of Rhola and Neheli who battled the evil House of Malhel, driving them into the Dreadwood and possible extinction. Where does the House of Lyons fit in that history? Was it the Houses of Rhola and Neheli that disagreed with House Lyons over slavery, or was House Lyons driven apart from the other Houses earlier? Was House Lyons even one of the 12 Suel Houses that escaped the Rain of Colorless Fire with Slerotin, the last Mage of Power, or did they come to the Flanaess separately, or even before the Twin Cataclysms? Why were they driven all the way to the Amedio Jungle? If they came before Slerotin and the 12 Houses, perhaps it was Vecna's empire that they encountered alone and were driven far to the south. If they were able to fashion such a powerful sword at that late time, they must have had at least one substantial city that would now be in ruins, or perhaps the ruins were built over by later civilizations (e.g. Sasserine or Blackwell Keep). Perhaps it was House Malhel that drove House Lyons out of the Sheldomar Valley, thus proving their evil intent to the other Houses who then banded against them.

    SirXaris
    _________________
    SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 14, 2019
    Posts: 18


    Send private message
    Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:50 am  

    mtg & SirXaris: your responses were above and beyond and very appreciated. Lots to digest and research. I was patting myself on the back for throwing a reference to just one of the human groups , but these suggestions are far beyond my meager abilities to sift through the LGG (I plan on getting FTA soon). I'll dig up the references you brought out and see if I can cobble something together that's worthy of .... well, something.

    Thanks again, I'll deep dive into more lore and see how I can roll this out. I may end up writing something much longer than planned. Since the weapon is sentient, having a detailed backstory will give me a great deal to lean on when the sword decides to strike up a conversation.

    For reference, I'll post my second draft here, but not sure how long it'll be. Granted I have time, what with being quarantined (daughter testing positive), so I'll see what I can come up with.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 539
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:15 am  

    Emongnome, at its best, Canonfire! offers precisely the kind of dialogue, delving deep into canon and fanon, that you initiated and to which SirXaris and I responded. I look forward to learning what you ultimately develop and hope that your daughter recovers quickly and completely.

    Regarding SirXaris's suggestions, I think I missed the Amedio Jungle connection, but thinking about it, House Lyons (or Liyon) might be a subfamily of House Rhola, which engaged in a centurial war with the Toli Suel prior to Tavish the Great's conquest of Port Toli and establishment of the March of Monmurg in CY 306. According to Samwise, part of their centurial struggle derived from the slavery (and necromancy) practiced by the Toli Suel, which the Rholan Suel detested. See The Rhola and the Toli: the Battle for Jeklea Bay and Grand Sheldomar Timeline, Part I (of a three part series).
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2595
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:13 am  

    mtg wrote:
    Regarding SirXaris's suggestions, I think I missed the Amedio Jungle connection, but thinking about it, House Lyons (or Liyon) might be a subfamily of House Rhola, which engaged in a centurial war with the Toli Suel prior to Tavish the Great's conquest of Port Toli and establishment of the March of Monmurg in CY 306. According to Samwise, part of their centurial struggle derived from the slavery (and necromancy) practiced by the Toli Suel, which the Rholan Suel detested. See The Rhola and the Toli: the Battle for Jeklea Bay and Grand Sheldomar Timeline, Part I (of a three part series).


    I appreciate you covering for me, there, mtg. :)

    Apparently, I was confused when I originally read the following statement from the O.P., conflating the Tilvanot Penninsula with the Amedio Penninsula. Razz

    Emongnome wrote:
    ...The House of Lyons was of a pure line of Suloise living primarily on the Tilvanot Peninsula.


    SirXaris
    _________________
    SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 14, 2019
    Posts: 18


    Send private message
    Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:13 pm  

    I used the Tilvanot Peninsula since that's labeled "Scarlet Brotherhood" on the Darlene map, alluding to them as they play a somewhat minor role in the Slave Lords adventures (more by reference, but I plan on making the connection a little stronger).

    That said, I'm not married to having a SB connection at all, or at least in that manner. I have enough here to create quite an historical web, connecting several events through the history of the sword.

    Haven't done much more, was working on collecting the references you both have provided, still very early into the process.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 25, 2020
    Posts: 6


    Send private message
    Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:12 am  

    This is a little more focused on the flavor of the magic item itself. To me, a magic item that wants you to be invisible all the time reminds me most of the One Ring from LotR and seems much more like a cursed item, and maybe not even a good aligned item. Beyond this, YMMV, but as a DM, having a basically all the time invisible character limits some of the plot/storyline options and so I'd be inclined to go for a more limited role. If invisibility is the ability you'd like to go for, I'd look at the Cloak of Invisibility which makes it a more limited resource (2 hours total, gets 1 hour back when unused for 12 hours). That is still a legendary item with no other powers. Alternatively, it could cast insvisiblity once or twice a day at will. To me, the level of powers assigned to the sword so far looks more like artifact level in 5e. Some other powers to consider if you're willing to forgo invisibility:

    - sword and sheath are invisible when sheathed (this is in A3 and I like it flavor wise, especially for say being taken as a slave and perhaps still having a weapon on you)
    - 3/day can release manacles, rope bindings, unlock a door, etc. within a 30 foot radius
    - While touching this sword, you are hidden from divination magic. You can't be targeted by such magic or perceived through magical scrying sensors. (limiting it is nice, as that creates windows to let them be found for you as the DM when it suits the story)

    I'd probably also keep it as a +1 or maybe +2 sword. +3 is a lot in 5e and it is only +1 in the original module, but that's more about how high magic of a game you want to run.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 14, 2019
    Posts: 18


    Send private message
    Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:34 am  

    bubbacully wrote:
    This is a little more focused on the flavor of the magic item itself. To me, a magic item that wants you to be invisible all the time reminds me most of the One Ring from LotR and seems much more like a cursed item, and maybe not even a good aligned item. Beyond this, YMMV, but as a DM, having a basically all the time invisible character limits some of the plot/storyline options and so I'd be inclined to go for a more limited role. If invisibility is the ability you'd like to go for, I'd look at the Cloak of Invisibility which makes it a more limited resource (2 hours total, gets 1 hour back when unused for 12 hours). That is still a legendary item with no other powers. Alternatively, it could cast insvisiblity once or twice a day at will. To me, the level of powers assigned to the sword so far looks more like artifact level in 5e. Some other powers to consider if you're willing to forgo invisibility:

    - sword and sheath are invisible when sheathed (this is in A3 and I like it flavor wise, especially for say being taken as a slave and perhaps still having a weapon on you)
    - 3/day can release manacles, rope bindings, unlock a door, etc. within a 30 foot radius
    - While touching this sword, you are hidden from divination magic. You can't be targeted by such magic or perceived through magical scrying sensors. (limiting it is nice, as that creates windows to let them be found for you as the DM when it suits the story)

    I'd probably also keep it as a +1 or maybe +2 sword. +3 is a lot in 5e and it is only +1 in the original module, but that's more about how high magic of a game you want to run.


    There's two legendary items that grant a boatload of invisibility: Ring of Invisibility and Cloak of Invisibility. Comparison:

    Ring: While wearing this ring, you can turn invisible as an action. Anything you are wearing or carrying is invisible with you. You remain invisible until the ring is removed, until you attack or cast a spell, or until you use a bonus action to become visible again.

    Cloak: While wearing this cloak, you can pull its hood over your head to cause yourself to become invisible. While you are invisible, anything you are carrying or wearing is invisible with you. You become visible when you cease wearing the hood. Pulling the hood up or down requires an action. Deduct the time you are invisible, in increments of 1 minute, from the cloak's maximum duration of 2 hours. After 2 hours of use, the cloak ceases to function. For every uninterrupted period of 12 hours the cloak goes unused, it regains 1 hour of duration.

    Basically, the sword acts as the ring (unlimited, but lost when attacking and such like the 2nd level spell). The cloak is like the 4th level greater invisibility, where you don't lose it when you attack. Big difference.

    That said, my suggestion for the sword was a +3 weapon and the non-detection beyond the already legendary-level invisibility. So, an argument can be made that I'm exceeding the legendary category. I can drop the +3 to a +1 which is consistent with A3, but from what I can tell, all legendary weapons and armor seem to default to +3. As for the non-detection, I considered that a ribbon only, as it's only of value when being magically searched for. I could remove it altogether, though it seemed flavorful.

    Since it's main schtick was being invisible, I made the personality one where it kinda wanted to remain hidden. Maybe not cowardly, but as self-preservation, as it sees itself as the last in the line of Lyons (or Liyons, as suggested).

    Good comments and I appreciate the response.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 539
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:13 pm  

    bubbacully wrote:
    This is a little more focused on the flavor of the magic item itself. . . . Some other powers to consider if you're willing to forgo invisibility: . . .

    - 3/day can release manacles, rope bindings, unlock a door, etc. within a 30 foot radius

    My comment might be irrelevant, but whether one incorporates this into a 5e Sword of Liyons or another magic item, reading the quote above made me think of Dalt, "the Suel god of Portals, Doors, Enclosures, Locks, and Keys."
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 25, 2020
    Posts: 6


    Send private message
    Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:18 am  

    That all makes, sense, Emongnome, and, it's really about what level of magic you want to DM. I think some of it is that I'm trying to figure out why the Slavers hate a weapon that basically wants to stay hidden. I think they'd hate it more if it wanted to topple them, free the slaves, or whatever. So, I'm trying to see that story showing up in the weapon's abilities.
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- D&D 5th Edition All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.30 Seconds