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Apprentice Greytalker
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:38 pm
The Legacy fleet
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"The port city of Xer-Sul is the largest saltwater port of the Suel Imperium,
located at the mouth of the great river Resol-Brind, which pours from the
Imperial Basin’s inner seas into the Pearl Sea."
"The Resol-Brind valley consists of the lands on either side of the river leading to the Pearl Sea, and bound on both sides by small mountain ranges."
The valley is mostly kept as a woodland preserve, with forestry being
the main occupation of the province. The lumber produced by the valley is used to build the great ships the Empire uses in their naval trade and
exploration within and beyond the Pearl Sea."
I discover these geographical elements. A port in the salt sea, a valley, a river flowing from the inland sea of the Suloise basin?
The only thing I knew of was the inland sea depicted in Randy Richards' adventure.
Is there a map or discussion items that I missed?
Thank you for the info.
Jacques
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Sage of Canonfire
Joined: Jun 28, 2001
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Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:30 pm
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These ideas arose from a series of discussions we had about the nature of the Suel Imperium. I posited an ancient land that was dominated by inland seas, which most importantly had access to the southern ocean via a strait, like a supersized version of the Bosporus. This helps explain the existence of so many sea gods in the Suel Pantheon. Here is a map that I made, adapted from the Sea of Dust map of Anna Meyer, which illustrates the design (its missing forests, etc and other cities, of course) but shows you Xer-Suel and the Imperial Capital, the so-called Forgotten City we know today.
Last edited by PSmedger on Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Apprentice Greytalker
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Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:34 pm
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| PSmedger wrote: |
These ideas arose from a series of discussions we had about the nature of the Suel Imperium. I posited an ancient land that was dominated by inland seas, which most importantly had access to the southern ocean via a strait, like a supersized version of the Bosporus. This help explain the existence of so many sea gods in the Suel Pantheon. Here is a map that I made, adapted from the Sea of Dust map of Anna Meyer, which illustrates the design (its missing forests, etc and other cities, of course) but shows you Xer-Suel and the Imperial Capital, the so-called Forgotten City we know today.
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Thanks PSmedger. I find the idea brilliant. But this map or a simplified version was missing in the adventure. One problem: isn't Xer-Suel in Zindia territory ? Otherwise, this city reminds me of the Court of Ardor.
Jacques
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Sage of Canonfire
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Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:50 am
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This map would be the state of play over 1000 years ago. It's possible there were no other cultures that were close to the Imperium, or if so, they were thoroughly dominated as client states.
Longetalos (who wrote the article in question) suggested the idea of a Legacy Fleet. It's one way to describe a more sophisticated Suel Diaspora that fled, over water, to the Densac Gulf, Tilvanot Peninsular, and even further to the isles off the eastern coast of the Flanaess and even as far as Rhizia.
As for Xer-Sul? It was probably destroyed or at least severely crippled by the Rain of Colorless Fire and abandoned. However, since it lay outside the encircling mountains of the Suel Basin, the environment was able to recover sufficiently to allow habitation in modern times. Whether that be a Suel successor culture, like TalMeta's Sunela Coast material or some other culture that migrated into the region, is up to you for your campaign.
Its just something that is cool and interesting to speculate on.
-G
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Sage of Canonfire
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Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:57 am
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Here are some crude speculations about Suel and other migrations I did some time back:
I'm aware it contradicts some of the lore in the 1983 boxed set, but that can be chalked up to an unreliable Oeridian narrator, especially when it comes to the travels of the other cultures.
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CF Admin
Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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From: Wichita, KS, USA
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Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:57 am
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Gary---
Did you incorporate any of Tal-Meta's Sunelan Coast into your maps and history here?
I've always liked his work on that region :D
Allan.
_________________
Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
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Apprentice Greytalker
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Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:20 pm
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| PSmedger wrote: |
Here are some crude speculations about Suel and other migrations I did some time back:
I'm aware it contradicts some of the lore in the 1983 boxed set, but that can be chalked up to an unreliable Oeridian narrator, especially when it comes to the travels of the other cultures. |
Congratulations again for this map of migrations, which if it contradicts certain official elements, are nonetheless starting points for a futuristic campaign in Greyhawk.
I think you are starting from the 1980 folio map. I really like the idea for the oeridians and humanoids starting point. Skip Williams' map (DRAGON 1996?) paralyzes us a little by the description of all these nations (with too many similarities with contemporary nations).
On the other hand, in contradiction with the work of Mike B. on Zihindia. But one can always imagine that the Suel imperium established colonies in Zihindia like France in India (Pondicherry...).
On the other hand, I prefer a land trip from the Sueloise to Rhizia, a defeat against the flanae and the oeridians, forgetting a few extravagances by Steve Wilson and Lenard Lakofka.
Jacques
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Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:17 pm
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Did the oeridians come from that far west? Is there a canon source for that? I thought that was the case but then could never find a source for that thought.
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Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:54 pm
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| Califor wrote: |
| Did the oeridians come from that far west? Is there a canon source for that? I thought that was the case but then could never find a source for that thought. |
DRAGON magazine has released a series of articles for its Chainmail miniatures game (Dragon n°285 to 293 and in particular n°285 The Armies of Thalos): Thalos / Queen Almira / Goddess Stern Alia / her three children Heironeous / Hextor / Stratis. Thalos is located in the far west of Oerik.
Jacques
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Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:45 am
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That helps explain why the oeridians have a god of the oceans. If they came from the area that is now Ull, as the 83 gazetteer seemed to suggest, I was baffled for why one of the few oeridian greater gods was a sea god. 
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Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:01 am
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| Califor wrote: |
| That helps explain why the oeridians have a god of the oceans. If they came from the area that is now Ull, as the 83 gazetteer seemed to suggest, I was baffled for why one of the few oeridian greater gods was a sea god. |
Personally, I use little of D&D4 except two deities: "He Who Was" & Erathis for the Oeridian pantheon.
I replace Stern Alia in Thalos with Erathis (city, civilisation, arts ...), Stern Alia being his alias in Medegy.
I make "He Who Was" the creator of the Oeridian pantheon and humanity which is destroyed by Asmodeus, its hierarch.
At a given moment, a part of the oeridians is isolated or isolates itself from its people. For example, those who refuse to follow Stratis and his horde (Stratis does not appear in the oeridian pantheon of Flanaess). They develop a maritime culture and trade (Procan and Zilchus). Then they migrate in the east, up to ULL then in the Flanaesse and meet the flanae. They discover Pelor and Rao replacing their dead god Sol "He Who Was". St Cuthbert becomes close to the two flanae deities, which arouses the antipathy of Pholtus, guardian of Oeridian orthodoxy.
Jacques
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:46 pm
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| Califor wrote: |
| Did the oeridians come from that far west? Is there a canon source for that? I thought that was the case but then could never find a source for that thought. |
Ivid the Undying: "Driven from their homelands by a great cataclysm, they founded the great capital of Rauxes nearly 4,000 miles from their ancient homeland. No other people traveled nearly as far of their own volition (the Suel were forced to do so)"
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 22: "This tale begins more than twelve centuries ago, when Oeridian tribes wandering the vast central plains of Oerik beyond the Flanaess in the Far West were driven to the east by a series of raging conflicts that culminated in the infamous Twin Cataclysms of prehistory"
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Sage of Canonfire
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Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:46 am
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Still mulling it over, I'm certainly leaving enough "space" to incorporate it. I do like the idea of Suel successor states that hardly anyone in the Flanaess has heard of. A great way to send your Greyhawk campaign in new directions.
-G
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