Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Postcards from the Flanaess
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
    On Thrommel's Abduction
    Posted on Tue, October 15, 2002 by Trickster
    tzelios writes "Thrommel’s abduction story is revealed, by the use of a well-established method. In the process we employ the word of the “creator”, aka E. Gary Gygax, to produce logical results. A poem tied to our story brings the old school flavour.

    Author: tzelios

    On Thrommel's Abduction; An examination of the canon
    By: tzelios (
    (Used with permission, do not redistribute without the express permission of the author)

    A. Method of Analysis
    Since there are numerous different sources of game material and authors, contradictions should be appropriately handled. The followed method in the present article is not a new one. Both Gygax and Robert Kuntz have successfully used it in the past.

    In the present article, the primacy of canon is asserted and the most consistent and ingenious method to satisfy all sources is sought. Information on the same subject, in interviews and works authored or edited by different persons or printed by different companies, is canonical according to the following order of validity: Gary Gygax, Robert Kuntz, Carl Sargent and Frank Mentzer, Eric Mona and Roger Moore, all other products by TSR, Wizards of the Coast or other companies. RJ Kuntz, in Oearth Journal, gives an example of our method. Kuntz attempted to put in line his player character, Robilar, with newly published material by TSR: Kuntz´s Robilar as played by him and described by Gygax and him is the true Robilar. The described by TSR products Robilar is his clone [OJ7]. Gary Gygax, at the next section, gives a second example of the adopted method.

    It is important to urge that, independent of the applicability of our method in real world science or matters, in a fantasy world like that of Greyhawk, the method calls for extra creativity in the use of canonical material and offers new gaming opportunities. Thus, up-to-date material is strengthened and vertically, in-depth, expanded.

    B. … At the Temple I was in …
    The most contradictory story ever present in all the gaming material, namely, the disappearance of Prince Thrommel, is detangled. In [T1-4], Iuz and the temple imprisoned Thrommel, but in the time charts of [WoG] it is said that the Scarlet Brotherhood captures the provost of Veluna. Carl Sargent made this same mistake in [FtA], treating the provost and the prince as separate people. The answer Gary gives in a discussion at [WoGFC], instead of giving his usual answer “… but the creator of the world said it …”, satisfies all sources in a very ingenious way: “How about this: The Scarlet Brotherhood captures Thrommel and sells him to Iuz and the Temple. Could be, eh?” And in another discussion he states that the Brotherhood was in the employ of Nyrond (!) [OJ12]. Given the fact that Nyrond is among the good nations of the world, the claim seems absurd. Though a deeper search in the history of Nyrond reveals that the nation passed imperialistic phases in the past, as per an introduction to Greyhawk by Roger Moore [WoGFC].

    Who could possibly be Nyrond´s agent involved in the abduction? From the mess and confusion that the disappearance has caused both to the current state of affairs in the Flanaess and to the gamers alike, over more than 20 years (!), this agent has to be a formidable one. The only such person that exists in the literature is Gellor, Gord´s friend, a high level bard. He has one eye and possesses a commanding presence at the thieves´ guild in Stoink, matching that of Arentol of Greyhawk. He also posed in the court of His Noble Grace Dunstan, Lord of Knurl as General Lord Nelbon Gellor. As Nelbon Gellor, he acted as an agent and spy for King Archbold of Nyrond, though his true liege was his cousin, the Countess Belissica, of the County of Urnst [SotOC], [SotOC, chronology and notes].

    Who could possibly be the Brotherhood’s agents that accomplish the abduction? We know well that the Brotherhood is inside the Slave Lords. The Slavers operated at the Wlild Coast area, which is neighbouring through Gnarley Forest with the Viscounty of Verbobonc [A1-4]. In 569 CY, Stalman Klim, high priest of the Earth Dragon, leaves Suderham, Pomarj. In 574 CY, Stalman Klim holds the First Council of the Nine (Slave Lords), and afterwards, he returns to Suderham with his new allies [Slav]. So Stalman Klim, together with most of the remaining Slave Lords, are the captors of Thrommel in 573 CY.

    And the story goes like this, sung preferably by Gellor:

    As I was trying to promote
    Campaign to the south I sought
    To marry the beautiful Jolene
    The two good states to join
    From Furyondy to Veluna
    I stack at Verbobonc
    At the bachelor I was sin
    At the temple I was in
    “kung” and “fu” is all I heard
    Then the mellow one-eyed bard
    At the temple I was in
    Please good god do mercy me

    It is a pitiful story, as the latest news on Thrommel is that he is infected by vampirism [RttToEE], though you may prefer to disregard this last reference.

    C. Sources
    A1-4 - Scourge of the Slavelords (D. Cook, A. Hammack, H. Johnson, T. Moldvay, L. Schick, E. Carmien)
    FtA - From the Ashes (Carl Sargent)
    RttToEE – Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (M. Cook)
    Slav – Slavers (S.K. Reynolds, C. Pramas)
    SotOC - Saga of the Old City (E.G. Gygax)
    SotOC, chronology and notes - (Eric Mona)
    T1-4 - The Temple of Elemental Evil (E.G. Gygax, Frank Mentzer)
    tAB - The Adventure Begins (Roger Moore)
    WoG - World of Greyhawk boxed set (E.G. Gygax)
    WoGFC – World of Greyhawk Fan Club,
    Related Links
    · More about Rogue's Gallery
    · News by Trickster

    Most read story about Rogue's Gallery:

    Postfest III: Abi Dalzim

    Article Rating
    Average Score: 3.84
    Votes: 25

    Please take a second and vote for this article:

    Very Good


     Printer Friendly Printer Friendly

    The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

    No Comments Allowed for Anonymous, please register

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by chatdemon ( on Tue, October 15, 2002
    (User Info | Send a Message | Journal)
    Kudos on a well thought out and documented bit of research!

    I wanted to clarify one of Tzelios' sources for those readers that are not familiar with the body of online greyhawk material.

    The WoGFC, or World of Greyhawk Fan Club, is a site administrated by Randy Richards that produced two volumes of an e-zine style collection of fan writings entitled the Greyhawk Grimoire. Randy has apparently moved on to other projects, and the site now suffers from the neglect seen in a lot of the once vibrant Greyhawk sites, but the GGs are still interesting reads for those interested in learning more about the setting.

    To check out the 'Introduction to the World of Greyhawk' article by Roger Moore that Tzelios mentioned, download the Greyhawk Grimoire vol. 1 and unzip the file, which is a collection of text, imae and sound files, and open dustsea3.txt

    For the quotes from E. Gary Gygax about Thrommel, grab the same zipfile, GGv1, and open the file sage.txt, which is a Q&A style document addressing some of the frequent questions about the setting, with answers from a range of GH sages.

    In addition, the Oerth Journal fanzine, issue 7, cited by Tzelios as OJ7, can be found here on canonfire on the Oerth Journal homepage.

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Tzelios on Wed, October 16, 2002
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Thank you very much Mr. Rich Trickey, it's really encouraging to see such a good comment from one of the editorial board. I am new in Canofire and this was the best welcome. Hope other members will like the article the same.


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by MerricB on Wed, October 16, 2002
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Nice article. :)

    As to Thrommel's vampirism... well, nowhere in Greyhawk official lore was he rescued. I think Monte had fun with his state in the original ToEE - imagine the poor player who comes upon Thrommel in Return and thinks the vampirism is just an illusion!


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Jachyras ( on Wed, October 16, 2002
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    IMC, the players and myself (there was a different DM at the time) found Prince Thrommel when we went through the ToEE. We figured out the poem, saw through the illusion and freed the Prince. The Prince has been a strong political ally for the party (which I now DM) and has helped be a spring board for numerous adventures. The Prince also played a significant role in the war years and helped save many lives. Prince Thrommel "runs" Furyondy now with Belvor taking a smaller role advising his son on most matters of state.

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wed, November 13, 2002
    An interesting article, but no mention was made of the information on Thrommel that appears in Return of the Eight.

    Also, I do not find it difficult to beleive that Nyrond was involved in Thrommel's kidnap. If one can go beyond the "all good nations help other good nations" simplicity, it is easy to see how Nyrond and Furyondy are strong rivals (or were, before the Wars). Furyondy and Veluna were poised to unite, a fact which should have made anyone in Nyrond worried. After the Wars, the threat of Iuz may make Nyrond's involvement seem misplaced, but before the Wars I find it entirely plausable.


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Tzelios on Tue, November 19, 2002
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Thanks for mentioning the Rot8 reference.

    Actually, there are some problems with this reference. First, the ring hidden in Tenser's castle is a different ring from the one described in Temple of Elemental Evil. Second, the finding of Thrommel's ring outcome in the Rot8 module is just a suggested possibility among other two posssibilities, determined by the DM. I wouldn't like to expand on a reference that is not canonic for all gamers. If it is the involvement of the Circle of Eight that you would like to be stressed out with the help of the Rot8 reference, then this is already been done in my article in a non-straightforward way: Gellor, Nyrond's agent, is also an agent of the Citadel of Eight during Thrommel's abduction, later becoming Lord of Balance, and that's how you've got Neutrality against good. Check out the Gord novels.

    Cheers, Tzelios


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Tzelios on Mon, March 03, 2003
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    I post the following comment as an amendment to Thrommel΄s Abduction article. It is taken under consideration the problematic, though important, Rot8 reference authored by the accredited Roger Moore.

    Some key references
    Prince Thrommel of Furyondy was also Provost of Veluna, and Grand Marshal of Furyondy and the joint army against the horde of the Temple of Elemental Evil at the battle of Emridy Meadows at 569CY. Had Thrommel not disappeared by 573CY, and had he been married with Princess Jolene of Veluna, this would have meant the unification of the two states [GttWoG, p9, 11].

    By 579CY, in the inky chamber inside the Temple of Elemental Evil, lays in stasis, and masked by a powerful illusion to appear as a vampire, Prince Thrommel. On his left hand is a gold ring with an emblem of crown and crescent moon, the coat of arms of Furyondy [ToEE, p86].

    In the unforgiving vault inside Tenser´s castle, reached after passing three secret doors, laid at most three items that Tenser would not wish anyone to find. One of the three suggested items is a burned and battered platinum signet ring missing its gemstone. The signet ring’s coat of arms matches that of Prince Thrommel of Furyondy. Tenser learned that this ring once held a magic jewel to which the prince’s soul fled when his mortal body was destroyed. The damaged ring rests on an old parchment, a forgotten prophecy made to the first King of Furyondy, Thrommel I that provides clues to rescuing the prince. If the gem can be found, the prince may be restored to life. And all this may happen at 585CY [Rot8, p43].

    Probably of no importance is that an alleged madman posing as Prince Thrommel was put to the torch in the village of Garegest in 591CY, without the benefit of a divination [LGG, p130].

    By 592CY, Thrommel infected by vampirism is a Tharizdun servant at the Temple of All-Consumption. In his coffin there is all his treasure from ToEE, including his golden ring, except Fragarach. He also has a fiendish bat servant, Jolana [RttToEE, p120].

    Thrommel´s two rings
    In Thrommel΄s Abduction article it was shown that Scarlet Brotherhood agents working for Nyrond abducted the prince, and then sold him to Iuz at 573CY. After a year, at 574CY, it was these agents who found the organization of the Slavelords. Nyrond’s agent involved in the abduction was Gellor, Gord’s friend.

    One of the possible outcomes of the Rot8 module is the finding of Thrommel΄s battered and burned signet ring, missing its gemstone, in a well-hidden place inside Tenser΄s castle. The missing gem contains the soul of the prince. There are two problems with the Rot8 reference, which we are going to overcome.

    Firstly, the finding of Thrommel's ring outcome in the Rot8 module is just a suggested possibility between other two possibilities, determined by the DM. The other two, the Regalia of Might and the Baba Yaga hut possibilities, are not uniquely Greyhawk connected. If a DM wants to strengthen Greyhawk campaign involvement, he is obliged to make the possible Thrommel΄s ring outcome a fact.

    Secondly, the ring hidden in Tenser's castle is a different ring from the one described in the ToEE module. They are both signet rings. However, the one is golden and the other is platinum. And this cannot be a typo, since the ring in Tenser΄s castle used to sport a rare magical item, a soul gem, while the ring of the Temple has no gemstone. In addition, the golden ring is with Vampire Thrommel at the Outer Fane of the Temple of All-Consumption, while at the same time the platinum ring, which used to sport Thrommel΄s soul gem, is inside Tenser΄s castle. Vampire Thrommel΄s ring is the same with the one that the prince was wearing while in stasis at the Temple of Elemental Evil (compare the prices in ToEE and RttToEE modules, they are equal). By the Rot8
    reference it is implied that a team of adventures found Thrommel in the Temple of Elemental Evil, and, duped by the powerful illusion spell, attacked the fake vampire with steel, spells, and fire, hence the battered and burned condition of
    the ring. This could have been done by any team prior or during Robilar΄s disastrous foray into the Temple at 579CY, including Robilar himself. Moreover, Rot8 module implies that the gemstone was detached from the ring, and the ring without its gem, somehow during the attack parted, slipped or was unawarely thrust away from Thrommel΄s beaten body.

    And thus the conclusion of having the Vampire Thrommel with his magical dagger, and his golden belt, amulet, and ring inside the Temple of All-consumption, and the platinum ring missing its gemstone inside Tenser΄s castle. Fragarach is in
    Aerth of Mythus fantasy RPG (ToEE module predates Mythus RPG). Where could Thrommel΄s soul gem be? Note that the body of Thrommel without its soul is sufficient to have a Vampire Thrommel by using a create greater undead spell. Hence, it is not necessary that Thrommel’s soul gem be in possession of Tharizdun’s cult. However, due to the fact that Vampire Thrommel maintains some part of his pre-vampiric consciousness (at the ToAC he has a fiendish bat servant named Jolana), we must admit that his soul gem was used by ToEE masters to restore him to life, and afterwards he was infected by vampirism.

    Why would Thrommel have two signet rings? The only logical explanation that could be found is that the ring with the gemstone was a gift of King Belvor to Thrommel, prior to his marriage with Princess Jolene. It might have been accompanied with a second signet ring for Princess Jolene, which could have been destroyed during the attack on Thrommel at the Temple of Elemental Evil. Thrommel did not wear the second ring, while in stasis at the ToEE, instead it was in his pocket. Belvor knew of the prophecy made long ago to the first King of Furyondy, Thrommel I, regarding Prince Thrommel´s disposition and his rescuing. He wanted to protect his heir by providing him with a soul gem. Aditionally, the ring inside Tenser´s castle is more ornate, and made of a more precious material than the ring of ToEE, which reflects the higher status that Thrommel would have acquired.


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by castlemike on Sun, December 12, 2004
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Excellent article.

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by castlemike on Sun, December 12, 2004
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Got to thinking about the Nyrond angle. If you use the Living Greyhawk Gazetter and the Marklands. There is the possibility of the Evil Nyrond Crown Prince Sewarndt. He could have been involved in such a plot. Maybe for a twisted love fixation on Lady Jolene or some other plot to be revealed sometime in the future by the designers. Just a thought.


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Tzelios on Mon, December 13, 2004
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    It is possible that Prince Sewarndt was implicated, but the important thing is that this abduction of Thrommel was among secret plans of King Archbold, and not some plot of an evil prince. It is a standard imperialistic plan of Nyrond.

    Castlemike, thanks for your good word.


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Shalaban on Tue, August 23, 2005
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Nice work; I see this can still go different ways...

    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!

    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.51 Seconds