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Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setting?
| Because EGG is no longer in charge, he can save it |    5.58% (27) | | Products since EGG went in the wrong direction | 4.75% (23) | | Living Greyhawk is so KEWL who could ask for more? | 3.51% (17) | | Greyhawk Fandom is totally divided on new material | 8.06% (39) | | WotC isn't supporting much of anything these days | 27.07% (131) | | TSR deliberately tried to kill it. Never recovered | 20.25% (98) | | Hit or miss products since the Golden Age | 4.75% (23) | | WotC can't support two medieval fantasy settings | 8.06% (39) | | Eberron Baby! | 2.89% (14) | | GH lives in home games and fan sites, nuff said. | 11.16% (54) | | Other, please explain | 3.93% (19) |
Total Votes: 484
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| "Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setting?" | Login/Create an Account | 14 comments |
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Re: Why is Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setting? (Score: 1)
by TwiceBorn on Sun, January 11, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | I think many readers have misunderstood the question (or perhaps the question should have been stated differently?). How can anyone claim that Greyhawk is nearly dead? Does not the existence of fan sites (like Canonfire), thousands of home campaigns, and thousands of Living Greyhawk players suggest that Greyhawk is alive and well? Judging by the number of posts on the Greyhawk message board at wizards.com, Greyhawk remains one of the most popular D&D settings. A lack of product support does not mean that a setting is dead... it is alive as long as fans like you and I keep it alive.
Now if the question had been why does WotC no longer produce official Greyhawk material, then I would say that they've made poor marketing/design decisions in the past (as has TSR), and still do not know how to market the setting in an effective way (this of course would be compounded by the lack of consensus concerning what Greyhawk fans actually want)...
But just remember... lack of official products do not a dead setting make...
Now get out there and play, and be happy! Long live the 'Hawk! :-) |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by PaulN6 on Mon, January 12, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.youtube.com/user/pauln6 | Any world has a limited life span since there are a limited number of players and they will only buy products once. The best way to make money is to introduce new source material for a whole new game world or to produce 'neutral modules' that can be set anywhere but lose a lot of flavour. I'm just grateful that Greyhawk was given a new lease of life at all in third edition at all!
Living Greyhawk is an inspired idea to keep Oerth developing but many of us can't keep track of what is 'officially' going on in every country. I've never seen the (now defunct?) monthly gazeteer for sale in the UK at all, the websites don't have these kinds of regular udpates, and it's really hard to extract canon material from the hundreds of emails on the yahoo groups.
There is defintely a market for these kinds of gazeteer updates, which I think would then inspire people to buy more modules. Don't ask me how it could be done without WotC backing though.
I'm trying to type up my own gazeteer for my own use, based on all the published material, websites, and yahoo information. It's a nightmare job with all the shifting borders. I have also noticed that there are many official locations (many in which modules have been set), but the gazeteer information (ie place names, map locations, npcs etc from those modules) isn't published outside the modules, which makes the game world quite fragmented when it could be fantastically detailed and interesting. I certainly don't have the time or the money to buy and wade through every module and my players would never have enough time to play them if I did. We need 'off camera' adventures to keep the world going and some method of telling the rest of us what is going on.
If anyone has a solution that would make this easier, I'd certainly like to hear it! |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Seeker on Tue, January 13, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | The question itself is bogus. Greyhawk is not dead. Greyhawk lives in thousands of campaigns in thousands of homes.
Greyhawk is not supported by WotC, and for that I am glad. I cannot stand the Forgettable Realms with its uber-magic in uber-quantities, and a wizard shoppe on every corner. DragonLance is so convoluted, what with multiple ages to keep track of. Eberron looks like it will be decent, but it is definitely a twist.
If WotC were to "officially support" Greyhawk development, it would ultimately respond to the portion of the fan(boy) base the demands more more more. More magic. More spells. More power.
My Greyhawk is the Greyhawk that I pulled out of the box in 1982. My Greyhawk is at the level of magic that *I* want in my campaign.
My Greyhawk is alive and well. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Manhammer (manhammer@poop.com) on Fri, January 16, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | I chose other beacuse I think the demise of the published Greyhawk is a multi-causual situation. First, that even in the "golden age" Greyhawk was delivered as a sporadic patchwork of modules that was only tied by map coordinates. I know that as I read and played them over the years I only got a patchwork feel for the world. Second, the popularity of the Forgotten Realms line has insured that a lrage chunk of TSR, WOTC and Hasbro attention and dollars have gone to it. And lastly, I think that by making the setting the basis for the RPGA living games and the "generic" setting for 3.0 have weakened it somewhat. While I love playing RPGA games they don't have the cohesiveness or "full picture" of the earlier work. The fact that 3.0 uses all the gods just kind of makes them a little bland.
All told Greyhawk holds some of the most exciting game time I can remember, but the cohesiveness in product support just isn't there. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Osmund-Davizid (davidwsmith3@juno.com) on Fri, January 30, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message | Journal) | I chose to respond to this poll in much the same manner of the above comments. That is, I agree that Greyhawk is not dead (just look at the number of posts and articles on this site alone!). I took the poll to refer to the official products line.
I chose the "hit or miss" products line as the reason that Greyhawk fell off the radar screen in favor of the Forgotten Realms by TSR in the first place. Many products were forgettable such as Gargoyle, Patriots of Ulek, Castle Greyhawk while the FR were better supported.
Greyhawk made a rennaissance when From the Ashes arrived, but that product line had its critics as well. In the end, the published materials just lost their direction and Greyhawk fell away from the published materials.
I, for one, do not particularly like the new format of making Greyhawk the "generic" D&D world the WotC seems to be selling now. I find the materials presented on fan sites like this one to be far closer to the spirit and quality of the Greyhawk I know and love.
So long story short, Greyhawk is still doing great so long as dedicated fans make it so. I enjoy the discussions and articles presented on this site especially, so it is really up to us as to how long Greyhawk can continue to flourish.
O-D |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by jwb3 on Sun, February 01, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | Currently WotC can't publish Greyhawk material because it is effectively the property of the current Living campaign. Perhaps after the campaign's run ends, there will be a pool of fans (customers) for whom WotC can and will produce quality products (fingers crossed) - but I won't hold my breath.
It doesn't help that the only products that are available are creatively bankrupt repeats of old modules (I mean the novels and Return to the ToEE).
They need to find someone who can come up with a new, original basis for a campaign product to get everyone exited again.
Of course, this doesn't explain the years that Greyhawk languished or suffered under what I considered incompetent, lackluster leadership. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by gideonn on Thu, February 19, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) http://home.ca.inter.net/~jersey/chatwin.htm | The commercially motivated switch to 3.0 and then 3.5 destroyed Greyhawk. Now it is a tighly regulated Living Greyhawk campaign ruled by local Triads which effecively took this world out of the realm of individual living rooms and personal imaginations and stuffed it into local, and often disorganized arenas, highly structured and stultified by a distant and dictatory Circle of Six.
Way back when the first printing of the Greyhawk maps came out, EGG admitted that 'those gray areas were there for a purpose.' Those areas, once open to creative and indivdual interpretation are long gone, replaced by rules and regulations, and a new generation of players who are too dependant on them .
Too bad. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by adhevan on Thu, May 20, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I think the slew of novels and computer games set in the Realms brought it more popularity. If Greyhawk had been given the same kind of support, I think it would have done as well, but there is really no way to know for certain. I also thing that Living Greyhawk, as much as I like the LGG, is harmful in the long run. In order for WotC to support it, they need products that will sell. From what I understand, modules are not really that profitable. I am not sure about regional sourcebooks, but for those to sell instead of just being blasted as rehash, the world setting needs to move forward. And I mean as a coherent whole, not just advancing the timeline in the one region that is being detailed. This requires a single writer, or small team, working with a vision, or at the very least overseeing the entire project to make sure that things others write will mesh. As near as I can tell, the various triads are completely independent with no overall direction. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Anced_Math on Mon, August 02, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message | Journal) http://www.greyhawkonline.com/granmarch/ | Dead, are you kidding? I agree with many that the creation of the Realms has taken the focus of TSR/WOTC away from Greyhawk; and that the creation of Living Greyhawk makes it difficult for "published." items like those available for other settings. However, dead seems to be the furthest thing from the truth. With over 20 years of adventuring in Greyhawk, I think it is stronger than ever and so do my players. My current campaign plays off of the stories and information posted on Living Greyhawk sites. They help a busy DM with the macro politics, and lets the players exist in a Realistic World. And if I do not like what they are publishing, I change it. This is D&D after all.
This very site proves that the setting is thriving. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Muscles on Tue, August 31, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | I will add my Greyhawk isn't dead comment here.
I also agree with others on the lack of leadership and direction combined with greedy marketing made many DM's cease to buy into the endless upgrades, special editions, jr.high modules, all wrapped in a planned pricing structure bow.
I will not buy another product from whatever multinational corporation that gets it paws on the rights to greyhawk. I play 2e and the '82' boxed set and 3 books and some modules and imagination kept my campains running for over 10 years. the Iuz/marklands updated well for me and that will keep my games going forever. I haven't used miniatured,despite the falcon travesty, and the board game actually expanded my campain and options though I never used it.
I remember 3d6 for everything, remember bell graphs? The only way I'll buy another product from the marketing devils is if they corner the market on pencils and graph paper.
Gary gave us all a magical world, and no amount of bad publishing houses will kill it. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Cymraegmorgan on Wed, November 24, 2004
(User Info | Send a Message) | So many of the possible answers to this question are true, I had to answer other. It is almost an "all of the above" situation. TSR went batty, EGG didn't do enough, WotC is squeamish about GH, LG creates a schism.
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by Tourmaline on Mon, January 31, 2005
(User Info | Send a Message) | ::pokes nose in::
I'm pretty new to Greyhawk, and finding it to be a fun environment. However, the setting has MAJOR fragmentation issues. Canon information tends to be scattered around in modules, rather than neatly collected in sourcebooks. Yes, this can stimulate creativity in home campaigns. It can also be immensely frustrating for those of us playing the Living campaign- and what happens when you invest time and energy in filling a background 'gap', only to find a canon source that directly contradicts you two weeks later?
This, I believe, is one reason why the Realms have been so successful. Say what you will about it, it's user-friendly for the DM. The DM's job takes enough time as it is without hunting through Google and eBay for bits of setting information. If Greyhawk is going to be a successful commercial product again- which it could be, with the right writers- somebody needs to sit down and hammer out at least one basic sourcebook for the setting. |
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Re: Why is (published) Greyhawk nearly a dead Campaign Setti (Score: 1)
by hal on Sat, January 21, 2006
(User Info | Send a Message) | | i had to vote other because it is a mix of the above but mainly it was when GARY left TSR they stopped everything GREYHAWK and went full speed ahead into FORGOTTEN REALMS which went over very well, so you have to ask WHAT IF GARY hadn't left TSR |
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